‘This Is the War Against Human Nature’

“There’s something very spiritually dark about the internet,” the author Paul Kingsnorth tells Ross Douthat in this week’s episode of “Interesting Times.” Kingsnorth warns against the expanding presence of technology in our lives and declares it “the war against human nature.”00:06:10 - Defining "The Machine"00:08:03 - Ecological vs. Spiritual Collapse00:15:03 - The Case for Modernity00:24:02 - The Four Ps of a Healthy Culture00:28:39 - Collapse, Revival, and The Internet00:34:05 - Thiel, Musk, and The Antichrist00:42:37 - The Choice in 'Alexandria'00:46:44 - How to Live Within The Machine (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.