The Biggest Lie Pronatalist Tell (The Hungary Fertility Myth)

In this eye-opening discussion, Malcolm and Simone Collins dive deep into the controversial topic of Hungary's pro-family policies and their supposed success in boosting fertility rates. Despite claims from conservative media outlets and Hungarian officials, a closer look at the data reveals a different story. The hosts examine various sources, including national aggregators, academic studies, and local Hungarian statistics, to uncover the truth behind the numbers. They discuss the dangers of promoting false narratives, the potential for government overreach, and the importance of approaching demographic issues with evidence-based solutions rather than political agendas. Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] this Breitbart piece Simone Collins: the pro family policies pursued by Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban's government as an alternative to mass immigration are reaping dividends. with births of 9. 4 percent year on year. Much ridiculed, , policies were also accompanied by a near 100 percent increase in marriages and the number of children per woman rising to an average of 1. 6. , Malcolm Collins: if you look at the data actually Hungary underwent a smaller fertility bump than its neighboring countries. Simone Collins: Oh no. Malcolm Collins: So here I am showing a Article from the end of 2023, Daily News Hungry. Number of children born in Hungary at a historic low in 2023. Huh. Okay, that shouldn't be happening. All right let's look at another thing by this outlet. Brutal population decline. Hungarians are dropping like flies. Oh that was published in [00:01:00] 2023. What? That's not the narrative I was reading So the Hungarian where they measure these informations is called the center of statistics office or the KSH. So I just sent you the KSH graph of the number of births in Hungary. This bump we're seeing on the national aggregate graphs does not appear in the own country's reporting. Would you like to know more? Malcolm Collins: Hello, Simone! I am excited, though trepidatious, to be here with you today, because today, We are going to do what is probably going to be one of our more controversial videos, which is one that I have been actually sitting on for a long time because I haven't wanted to do it because it is a video where we are unfortunately going to have to criticize a common thread within the pronatalist movement and among people who are sympathetic to the movement's cause who are promoting information that Unless you do a very deep dive, you would not be aware is misinformation. And [00:02:00] so I do not think that it is being promoted with any malevolent intent. It is more just, here is information that confirms my political presuppositions. Therefore, I'm not going to look at it inquisitively or skeptically. And we should add that Simone Collins: It seems intuitive. So you wouldn't think of the face of it that it's going to be wrong. Malcolm Collins: And so I would love it if you could start to introduce people to the mainstream pronatalist perspective on this. Read this Breitbart piece I sent you. Simone Collins: Let me just say it begins with a picture of what I think should be our entire family's new outfit. These traditional Hungarian dresses and women apparently being splashed with water. I just find it perfect. Anyway, I shall read. The pro family policies pursued by Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban's government as an alternative to mass immigration are reaping dividends. with births of 9. 4 percent year on year. Edward von Halsberg, the Central European country's ambassador to the Holy [00:03:00] See, and great grandson of Emperor Franz Joseph I of Austria Hungary, reported that the, quote, much ridiculed, unquote, policies were also accompanied by a near 100 percent increase in marriages and the number of children per woman rising to an average of 1. 6. , the population has been decreasing since 1981, unquote, said Kathleen Novak, Hungary's State Secretary for Family, Youth and International Affairs, in exclusive comments to Breitbart London, explaining the enormity of the turnaround her government has achieved. Quote, in 2010, when Orban's Fidesz party won the elections with a two thirds majority after eight years of socialist anti work, anti economy, and anti family governance, our country was at the brink of collapse, she recalled, citing, quote, austerity packages and the dismantling of the family benefit system. Quote, in 2010, we started to build a family friendly country dot. Our main goal is to eliminate the burdens that couples face when they would like [00:04:00] to have children, she said, highlighting policies including, quote, lifelong exemption from personal income tax for women with four children. Oh, that would be me if we weren't hungry. Can you imagine? Can I imagine? We set aside 38 percent of our income. Because PA's income tax is also not trivial. Partial mortgage write offs for families after birth of their second child and grandparental leave. Oh, that's smart. See, all these things sound good to me, Malcolm. Quote, the recent demographic figures speak for themselves. The number of marriages is at a 40 year high. The fertility rate is At its 20 year high, while the divorces haven't been as low as last year, in the last six decades, she added proudly. I love that they have to show her smugness. Malcolm Collins: I will and you can mention the tweet that they have here, right? Yes, below there's a Simone Collins: tweet by Edward Habsburg. Oh, a Habsburg, he says, ready for some good news? The much ridiculed Hungarian family politics is showing results in January 2020, 9. 4 [00:05:00] percent more births than last year, almost 100 percent more marriages and children per women from 1. 4 to 1. 6. Malcolm Collins: Yeah, so You see all this and first I'd point out that you've got to understand like why Breitbart wants this to be true, right? If you look at just the very next paragraph, the Secretary of State, herself a mother of three, was forced right when pressed to comment on the past remarks of outlets. Such as the Left Liberal Economist magazine, which rubbished the Hungarian government's aspirations to arrest its demographic decline through so called natalist policies rather than mass migration, as Western European countries such as Britain, Germany, and Sweden have attempted. Simone Collins: So By the way, it's is that how British people say trashed? I love that. Malcolm Collins: The point being is that if I am coming into this like a bright writer or something like that, right? Yeah. What I am contrasting here is mass migration as a solution to fertility [00:06:00] collapse versus what they are calling. Yeah, pro family policies, which I think in a historic since most conservatives who weren't so blinded by sectarianism within our own country would call socialism and government handouts. And it's not to say that I'm against it for that reason. I'm just saying this is not a conservative solution. It is a slightly more conservative solution than mass migration, but it is not. And we need to talk about this. scale of these handouts. 5 percent of Hungary's GDP is going to these programs. Okay. So the other thing I want to note here, Simone Collins: wait, hold on. What percent of GDP does the U S spend on various things? Malcolm Collins: So if you want to get that in context for within the US, if you're looking at the total amount of spending that goes to R and D, that 3. 4%. Simone Collins: Okay. Wow. Yeah. Malcolm Collins: So I, I wouldn't say it's an unwarranted amount, [00:07:00] right? Simone Collins: No. And also that's, I'm glad that we're spending on R and D. Malcolm Collins: And I'd also point out that the Breitbart article that wrote on this did not explicitly lie, or even really mislead with data. What the report was reporting, and it's important to note this because Simone didn't do this when she was reading, is she didn't mention all the quotations used. She didn't say, quote, X, end quote, by Y which hid that almost every time they were talking about a statistic or positive news in Hungary's fertility, Simone Collins: they were quoting somebody. Malcolm Collins: Now, the problem is that the individuals they were quoting were Hungarian bureaucrats and politicians that had put their careers on the line to get this bill passed. Simone Collins: So it's like in China when they implemented a new family bonus policy in two months, suddenly all these politicians were like, and now we're doing Malcolm Collins: China recently where they gave all of this money out to, to get fertility up. And then some [00:08:00] government bureaucrat who was just sleeping on it within two months, it released a thing saying huge number of birth increase since the implementation of the new policy. And everyone in China was joking on like their Weibo and stuff like that, that like they. They gave out such a big handout that it shortened the links of pregnancy. Simone Collins: And so I look at the same, like pregnancy, gestation, like this, like a dog. They've miraculously improved it. Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So I look at these reports and I'm like I'm sorry, I don't trust the very government bureaucrats who are pushing this policies perspective on how well this policy worked. I think what I need to do is I need to look at what the demographers are saying. Okay. You've got to keep in mind, there are a lot of shady left leaning demographers out there that are going to attempt to hide things. The problem is that generally they are motivated to attempt to increase fertility stats, so that nobody does anything about it, instead of artificially decrease fertility stats. Which can make going into this really [00:09:00] hard. Typically, if you want the worst fertility stats that you're going to get, what you should look at is the fertility stat aggregators. And I assume that's what a lot of people do when they're looking at this particular instance here. So I'm going to pull up one of these aggregators right here.. This is data bait. fertility stats, but it's not going to look that different from Statistica or really anything else. Simone Collins: That doesn't look Malcolm Collins: good. It goes up a bit after yeah, Simone Collins: technically from 2019 to 2020, the line doesn't go down and the line isn't flat. Malcolm Collins: Is it? Yeah, it was basically flat. But you do have a period of increase here, right? Which is really interesting. It does look like you could make a claim with this information that the hungry fertility policy is working. The problem is these big national aggregators. Are next to useless when trying to determine a country's fertility rate. And this is what I've really learned was Latin America where fertility rates are changing very rapidly right now is that you can really only get [00:10:00] accurate fertility data from on the ground sources and from local demographers. So that's what I mean by like government databases and stuff like that. So it's okay. Let's look at some other sources because this one would broadly back up. And I think that this is why a lot of people haven't realized because they're going to the national aggregators and the national aggregators are backing up the conservative narrative that Republic, that Hungry's fertility stats are working right now. So now we're going to look at something else. Let's look at what's happening in local media in Hungary right now. Simone Collins: Okay. Let's. Malcolm Collins: So here I am showing a Article from the end of 2023, Daily News Hungry. Number of children born in Hungary at a historic low in 2023. Huh. Okay, that shouldn't be happening. All right let's look at another thing by this outlet. Brutal population decline. [00:11:00] Hungarians are dropping like flies. Oh that was published in 2023. What? That's not the narrative I was reading. Okay. I'll go to academic sources. Those will give me some information, right? Here I have pulled up a academic study. And this study is titled the propensity to have Children in Hungary with some examples from other European countries. Okay. And this was published in 2022. Simone Collins: Okay. Malcolm Collins: Many European governments, including that of Hungary are spending a significant portion of GDP on family support to prevent family decline. Despite these efforts, we have not seen Any significant increase in the TFR. In this article, we explain the decisions of families not to have children by using a more stringent formulation of Beckard's original quantity trade off. And we point out that increasing family support expenditure has not achieved that goal. But now you might be like wait, how could it say that [00:12:00] if they're looking at anything close to the other numbers that I've been looking at? Simone Collins: How do we square this? Malcolm Collins: What's the first question you would ask if you saw these Hunkrarian fertility stats and you showed this rise after they were supposedly implemented? What's the first question you're going to ask? Simone Collins: Did something else happen? Basically, like, how was the first Malcolm Collins: question I would ask is for the fertility stats of the neighboring countries with similar. Oh, at Simone Collins: the same time. Yeah. Part of me, I was really distracted mentally to by the pandemic. I think a lot of nations. Remember there was talk about this. I haven't seen like aggregated data, but there's a lot of talk about during the pandemic there being a baby bump. In many nations because suddenly women were working from home or not working at all people. So Malcolm Collins: if you look at the data actually Hungary underwent a smaller fertility bump than its neighboring countries. Simone Collins: Oh no. Malcolm Collins: Oh, that's too Simone Collins: bad. Malcolm Collins: Oh, that's what we've been told. [00:13:00] Okay, now let's go look at another graph that is very important. So I did some more digging to try to find, a better sort of picture of what's going on locally in Hungary. And I had to, in a search to find the Hungarian government's data sets, because that's what I really wanted to Simone Collins: do. Okay. Malcolm Collins: I was like, okay, let's get the Hungarian From the horse's Simone Collins: mouth. Malcolm Collins: Exactly. Okay. So the Hungarian population where they measure these informations is called the center of statistics office or the KSH. Okay. So I just sent you the KSH graph of the number of births in Hungary. This bump we're seeing on the national aggregate graphs does not appear in the own country's reporting. In fact, you see no effect from these. There's Simone Collins: a tiny, in 2020, there's a tiny bump, but then it goes down again. Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Tiny bump, but yeah, we are dealing with the lowest number, the lowest fertility rate Hungary has ever had by their government's [00:14:00] own departments that are meant to research this. Simone Collins: Or as your mother would say, Yowza. Malcolm Collins: Yowza. Yowza. Simone Collins: Yowza. Malcolm Collins: The marriage rate is also lower. So I'll just read this article that's been translated from Hungarian. So according to preliminary data in December, 2023, 6, 565 children were born and 11, 727 people died compared to December, 2022. The number of births decreased by 12%, the number of deaths by 7. 2 percent and marriages by 4. 1%. So we are seeing a decrease in marriages as well. The other thing that they were touting last year, 857, 000 children were born, 3. 7% less than the previous year. And if you go, what it was really interesting, they also have death rates here, which they're much in, I don't know, for whatever reason within Hungary, the sources that are reporting on this are interested in the higher death rate that Hungary is seeing recently which I suppose if you are. Yeah, but if you want to get an idea of how fast [00:15:00] marriages are falling 50, 000 couples got married 22 percent less than the year before. Simone Collins: Cause there should I don't remember the article mentioning many marriage benefits. It was really more about tax incentives for having kids. Malcolm Collins: And this is for a magazine in Hungary called the index. So, I'm left in a bind here, right? Like I have to look at the various sources and try to, and this is a difficult thing in the world that we live in today. Like there aren't easy sources you can turn to and say, this is what's true. This is what's not true. So we'll lay out the data that we have available to us. People who risked their careers to support this policy. Say that it worked fantastically. Simone Collins: The Malcolm Collins: aggregators that are often wrong in fertility statistics seem to indicate that those individuals are right. Or at least that there was a bump in fertility and then a level of stagnation after that, which is what you often get with [00:16:00] these policies. So what you actually see when you see this bump and then stagnation, you're not actually seeing a fertility increase. You're seeing a difference in when people decided to have kids. So people who would have been having kids. Later or something like that, then decide to have it earlier to get this cash while it's available. Simone Collins: So it's similar to what like in, in China, for example, when it's like a, a Zodiac year that is particularly auspicious. Malcolm Collins: Then we have an academic study, which I'm going to assume has left leaning biases. But that is good at showing the Hungarians increase in fertility rate, which is lower than claimed in the other sources is less than its neighboring countries around the same time period. So if I was just looking at those sources. My take would be leaning towards the Breitbart take which is to say that these policies probably had at least a short term positive impact. But then I'm dealing with what the local press is saying and what the local statistics department is saying, which is showing that they are now at their lowest fertility rate that they've [00:17:00] ever had in terms of the number of births that are being recorded within Hungary. So this is like registered births. This is like down to the human being in these statistics. This is not like Guesses or something like that, or like broad TFR rates, is lower than it's ever been in Hungary's history. Okay? I see that. I see the number of registered marriages, these are marriages registered with the government, are decreasing like 22 percent year over year. I see that. My thought or my takeaway from all of this is actually the answer is probably that these policies did not work. Simone Collins: Especially when you look at vis a vis other nations around the same time for the reported yikes. Malcolm Collins: So what happened here and what does this tell us like as pronatals when we're pushing for stuff and why is it important to highlight the Hungary fertility myth? One is because it leads to bad policy decisions. And decisions that I think Fundamentally go against the political [00:18:00] sensibilities of the individuals that are pushing them. They are pushing for government action, government meddling was in families. And they don't realize that when the government bureaucracy, which is predominantly controlled by far leftist gets ahold of these policies, they will use it to meddle with family policies. They will use it to give out higher bonuses to specific individuals. Ethnic groups that they believe are more deserving of human dignity than other ethnic groups. They will give it to certain family structures that they think are more deserving of human dignity than other family structures. And it is not you do not want to be promoting this false narrative that this works. First of all, even for your own political perspective. Two, You're just wasting money and time. I'm actually not so worried about the wasted money. Cause a lot of it would go to us, we're happy about that. Yeah. Simone Collins: If someone's going to blow a bunch of cash and we get to benefit, who care. Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But I am worried about is the wasted time because countries like Korea that has spent, 200 billion attempting to fix this over the last, 16 years you, they think, Oh, I'm working on this because I'm spending money on [00:19:00] this. Yeah. They can't afford to let it go. Simone Collins: Yeah. Malcolm Collins: This Simone Collins: doesn't work. Yeah. It's like preparing for nuclear fallout by creating like a fallout center and a cardboard box or something. And you're like, wow, this looks so cool. Like I added windows, but it's really not going to do it. Malcolm Collins: Yes, it's a nuclear bunker that's not actually going to save you work.  What should you do if a volcano erupts near you or your family? Suddenly, daughter, here's a noise. It's a volcano. Junior seems worried, but have no fear, Junior. Jane learned in school what to do when you hear a volcano erupt. That's right, Jane. Duck and cover. So what will you do when you hear a volcano erupting? That's right. Duck and cover. Looks like you got the idea. That has got to be the most ridiculous load of pig crap I have ever seen! That's Look! The volcano! Quick! Duck and [00:20:00] cover! Malcolm Collins: And then this leads me to another problem we have, like it's actually super related to the subject. One of my favorite graphs in the industry is very interesting. It was in the industry of prenatalism and I'll put it on screen again, which shows studies that show. Government incentive programs and the impact they have on fertility rates. So that graph that I have mentioned so many times that shows a correlation between studies. That Simone Collins: demonstrate effectiveness of government spending Malcolm Collins: and the margin of error of those studies. What I haven't mentioned before, when I've been putting this is the person who put this graph together did not seem to realize that's what the graph was showing. It was presented by an organization called the Institute for Family Studies by Limestone in an article titled, Pro natalist policies work, but come with a hefty price tag. And this is where we have a problem within the pro natalist movement, not just around the hungry thing. Which is the tendency [00:21:00] to like Breitbart and like Lehman Stone does in this article, he presents real data, But then he pretends that the data is supporting something it's literally supporting the exact opposite of, it's almost like I'll throw a bunch of data on screen and say that it's saying X, when it's not really saying X, it's saying Y. Simone Collins: But the trick works most of the time, because most people, if they're like, Oh, someone presented data, they don't actually look at what's being said. Malcolm Collins: Yeah, and this gets me because we've become the default leaders of the pronatalist movement, and the one thing I never want our movement to become is the environmentalist movement, a movement that is willing to twist data to their ends, and that's willing to push aesthetic solutions that fit their government ideals oh, let's shut down nuclear power plants, even though that makes things worse. Let's stop using, plastic straws, because that's a Excuse for governments to like metal in people's daily lives, even though it doesn't really have that much of a meaningful impact. Let's promote masks, even though that now that's the huge, waste dump in the middle of the ocean [00:22:00] now. And. I don't want to become that as a movement and I think that I want to have a movement That is always supportive of everybody who's trying to work alongside us to promote the things that we're promoting want to be very careful that we do also call out When people are lying with statistics is the wrong answer, because I don't think that any of these individuals like realize that they are lying. I think that they do a very natural thing that you and I do as well. Every human does that when statistics push something that they want to be true, they uncritically accept those statistics, but when statistics seem to be pushing something that they don't want to be true, they then do a deeper dive, they look for the sources, they are like, okay, let's cross check this with a bunch of other studies. And This becomes a problem when our goal with the fertility collapse situation Is not just to get our team to win. It's to actually solve the problem To actually lower the pain that this problem is [00:23:00] going to cause and to actually get some sliver of our civilization Through this crucible our species is entering right now. And I think that If we don't call out You Where this is happening. That's never going to happen. Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. It's the battle between approaching demographic collapse as though it's a Rorschach test of your values and what you want to have happen versus approaching it from an evidence based perspective. And this happens with pretty much every wicked problem out there, a problem that's too complicated to simply solve. But We can't get caught in that trap. We can't afford to. Malcolm Collins: Yeah, and I would also point out that people should be careful when sharing Limestone's work. Simone Collins: You and casting shade on Lime and Stone, Malcolm Collins. I can't even. I wonder, I don't think he would do it if he wasn't so snarky every single time we tried to say something nice about his work. Malcolm Collins: Yeah, no it's actually something that happens to us a [00:24:00] lot. So we'll say something nice about him on Twitter and he'll snap back at us angrily. But it makes sense. I can understand he, he was around this topic before we were, but he always used the topic to just promote a Christian agenda, that's always been his goal. And so he will manipulate the way he's looking at data to promote that or promote shady studies. But we're always going to have to be aware that there are going to be people that try to hijack this real phenomenon that we're dealing with right now, which is falling fertility rates and then utilize that to push their personal agendas. That's. What. Whether their personal agenda is a a racist agenda or a, embryos or when life starts agenda, which, if you correlate that with fertility rates, that appears to lower fertility rates the stricter your abortion laws are within like Europe and stuff like that. We've done other videos where we talk about this, the attempt to use this to push an anti immigration agenda. And it's not to say that I think. The U. S. Should be more anti immigration than it is now. But fertility has nothing to [00:25:00] do with that. Simone Collins: And I think that's the whole reason why you wanted to be in the movement is that you saw that the only people in the movement were not actually per natalist. They were pro christian, pro some ethnic group, pro some immigration policy. And you actually wanted it. Mhm. There to be a nonprofit effort in this space. It was Malcolm Collins: literally just about Simone Collins: brokering a soft landing on demographical apps. So we're about more Malcolm Collins: than that because we have a, where we differ from just like just brokering a soft landing is we definitely point out that the problem from an economic perspective and from a Sociopolitical perspective isn't a lack of people. It's a lack of taxpayers and promoting the creation of additional people who will be a burden to the state system is not solving the problem. And by this, what we mean is cash handouts are disproportionately of high utility to people with lower incomes. And so when you do just pure crash handouts, which isn't what hungry was doing in this scenario. You will lead to, and you can see this, I'm not making a genetic argument here, anything like this is just very clear in the data. People born to families that are on welfare are much more likely to be on welfare than people who are not. [00:26:00] And if you increase that population, you have literally made the problem worse. It's not a, just a base human problem. It's not a human Simone Collins: problem. It's a human taxpayer, human pension contributor problem. Malcolm Collins: Yes in a, people working at these large tech companies and stuff like that. And it requires understanding that even if we accept the less perception of true Blink has a humanity, all humans are born equally potential as other humans. Then why aren't they able to fix this problem? Why is it, this clearly we haven't come up with a solution to get these people into these high positions with reliability in our economic system, and you can't bet our entire civilization on you figuring that out within a generation, which The current data shows you are further from fixing than you were historically, like the graphs that show that if you look at how democratic versus Republican a region is, and then you look at the I. Q. gap between [00:27:00] Hispanic and black and white populations, they are smaller in Republican controlled regions in larger in Democrat can quote. Control District, showing that these affirmative action policies are actually further creating institutional poverty cycles within these circles. It's not to say that we can't create a policy that, that does allow these communities to, to uplift themselves. But whatever the policy is, it is likely the exact opposite. Opposite of whatever progressives are doing right now. And since they are not moving in an exact opposite direction of their history, was this affirmative action and stuff like that, what that shows me is we can't bet on that being the solution when we're dealing with such an existential issue to our species right now. I eat the collapse of our economic and state system. And people hear that and they go, Oh, rich people are going to lose their money. When it's no, old people are going to starve to death. Wow. Yeah. Oh, people who thought that they old people are going to die in a horrible pain in poverty. The blight porn you can look up of Detroit is going to span [00:28:00] across most of the developed world. And people are going to be dying and suffering at rates that right now you would see on the streets of countries like South Africa, which is a first world country. And again, this Simone Collins: affects not the high income people that are being Like demonized for middle Malcolm Collins: class and lower class communities that are going to suffer. Simone Collins: High income people aren't going to be really affected. They're fine. They're mostly going to move to Malcolm Collins: like charter cities and stuff like that. They're going to use Simone Collins: AI to solve other problems and they're always going to be able to find and pay people to do what they need. It is not them. So anyway, thanks for going over this Malcolm. I really appreciate it. Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And it's just important that we call this stuff out when we see it. Because it is and I haven't wanted to do this. I've been sitting on this for a while. I've been like, look, I don't want to point out that a lot of the movement is just wrong about the hungry fertility stats. They do not appear to have worked. But they don't, it's useful to know because it's not only is this data true, but again. It could be used for malevolent means because I talked about the groups that want to use this crisis for their own ends as [00:29:00] much as right now like the globalists want to when I say the globalists, I don't mean this in like a vague sense organizations like the united nations, which is intrinsically a globalist organization want to lower the world's fertility rates they could just as well turn on a dime and say fertility collapses the problem. Therefore we need to control Family creation Family planning, the type of marriages that are allowed, the type of marriages that we are going to promote with cash. They could use this to extend control over family and child rearing that we have never seen historically. And I would say buckle up if you are giving them data that gives them ammunition for doing things like that. Simone Collins: Totally. Thanks, Malcolm. I love you. Malcolm Collins: I didn't really go long, I was making up for all the gaps. Told you. I keep recommending it on our podcast. I'm like, people need to check out this show. It's very well done. Because it's, Simone Collins: he doesn't just talk about. What's going on with Malcolm Collins: Korean history, which I actually find very [00:30:00] boring because I know all that history very well So for me, it's like going over like basic American history, but for our average viewer would be really useful Simone Collins: I mean it's it allows you to really appreciate in the most profound fashion What's going on? Imagine watching a ballet? and not understanding what goes in creating the form and the movements, it would be the most boring thing in the entire world. But if you have someone walk you through here's the history, here's the meaning, here's like how this, where this emerged from like French court dance, here's why the way that they're angling their hips and toes is both difficult and requires years of conditioning. And, like then you're like, Oh, okay. And this, it's not just like men and women being pissy anymore. It's about like Neo Confucianism Yeah, so what's going on with Hungry? Malcolm Collins: That part's gonna go at the end of the video, by the way. I never do the non sequiturs at the beginning. Oh Simone Collins: I, we hit record after I mentioned it. So there's no point in putting it in at all. Malcolm Collins: Oh you were talking about the Gacha Gang War thing. Simone Collins: Yeah. Malcolm Collins: But I'm gonna send you some private chats. Simone Collins: [00:31:00] Okay. Malcolm Collins: I think the best way to do this one is to start, Simone Collins: Where I'm gonna do a Malcolm Collins: framing and then I'm gonna have you read this particular piece that I just dropped in here. Simone Collins: Yeah. That works. Malcolm Collins: And you can, don't start with the subtitle. Oh, this is Simone Collins: the, yeah the one that was linked to from that other Breitbart article that we read. Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I'll just get started right now and, Simone Collins: hold on, I think I'm gonna sneeze. And then we're good. It's not coming. All right, go ahead. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit basedcamppodcast.substack.com