Shawn Punancy of Delta Flies High With ERM

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.   In this episode, Justin interviews Shawn Punancy, Sr. Manager, Enterprise Risk Management of Delta Air Lines, Inc. Justin and Shawn discuss her fascinating career history, disruption in the airline industry, Shawn’s risk philosophy at Delta Airlines, and how her ERM team stays connected to the business while maintaining a long-term strategic view of risk.   Shawn will present two sessions with Lianne Appelt, the Head of Enterprise Risk Management at Salesforce, at the RIMS ERM Conference on November 17th and 18th in Seattle, Washington. Shawn shares some hints on what to expect from the sessions.   Listen for Shawn’s view on the biggest opportunity right now for ERM professionals to elevate their impact across the enterprise.   Key Takeaways: [:01] About RIMS and RIMScast. [:15] The RIMS CRO Certificate Program in Advanced Enterprise Risk Management is our live virtual program led by the famous James Lam. Great news! A third cohort has been announced, from January through March 2026. [:32] Registration closes January 5th. Enroll now! A link is in this episode’s show notes. [:40] About this episode of RIMScast. We are flying high today, with Shawn Punancy, the Manager of Enterprise Risk Management for Delta Air Lines, Inc. Buckle in for the many aviation puns you’re going to hear during this episode! But first… [1:12] RIMS-CRMP Prep Workshops! The next RIMS-CRMP Prep Workshops will be held on October 29th and 30th and led by John Button. [1:24] The next RIMS-CRMP-FED Virtual Workshop will be held on November 11th and 12th and led by Joseph Mayo. Links to these courses can be found through the Certifications page of RIMS.org and through this episode’s show notes. [1:41] RIMS Virtual Workshops! RIMS has launched a new course, “Intro to ERM for Senior Leaders.” It will be held again on November 4th and 5th and will be led by Elise Farnham. [1:56] On November 11th and 12th, Chris Hansen will lead “Fundamentals of Insurance”. It features everything you’ve always wanted to know about insurance but were afraid to ask. Fear not; ask Chris Hansen! RIMS members always enjoy deep discounts on the virtual workshops! [2:15] The full schedule of virtual workshops can be found on the RIMS.org/education and RIMS.org/education/online-learning pages. A link is also in this episode’s notes. [2:26] RIMS Webinars! On October 30th, Swiss Re will present “Parametric Insurance: Providing Financial Certainty in Uncertain Times”. On November 6th, HUB will present “Geopolitical Whiplash — Building Resilient Global Risk Programs in an Unstable World”. [2:47] Register at RIMS.org/Webinars. [2:50] On with the show! Our guest today is the Manager of Enterprise Risk Management for Delta Air Lines, Inc. Her name is Shawn Punancy, and she has a fascinating career that I want to delve into today. [3:03] I also asked her to be on the show because she will have quite a presence at the RIMS ERM Conference 2025, which will be held on November 17th and 18th in Seattle, Washington. [3:14] On November 17th, at 11:45 a.m., she will be co-leading “Connections Count: Strategic Networking to Strengthen Risk Oversight.” On November 18th, at 9:00 a.m., she will co-lead “How Deep Should You Go?: Rightsizing Risk Assessment for Maximum Impact.” [3:33] In addition to learning about her fascinating career, I wanted to get a little preview of each of those sessions and learn a bit about her risk philosophy at Delta. Let’s get to it! [3:44] Interview! Shawn Punancy, welcome to RIMScast! [3:53] Shawn Punancy is the ERM Senior Manager at Delta Air Lines, Inc. Shawn will be at the RIMS ERM Conference 2025, November 17th and 18th. Shawn has a fascinating career. [5:00] Shawn was an intelligence analyst at the U.S. DOD from 2011 to 2012, then moved to the CIA as a Senior Intelligence Analyst for seven years. [5:18] Shawn says it was great working at the CIA. She thinks there are very few places where you can work and have such broad awareness. Her year at the DOD was to prepare her to work at the CIA. [6:10] As an Analyst, Shawn worked in counter-terrorism, counter-narcotics, traditional political analysis, and leadership analysis. She did some targeting work, which is helpful for ERM. [6:27] After Shawn left the government, she worked briefly for a consulting firm in Atlanta, Georgia, doing business operating risk. She got word of a job in the Delta Corporate Safety and Security Division on the Intelligence and Risk Mitigation Team. [6:51] Shawn joined Delta, doing that for two years. She got to meet her Director, Eric Mai, whom she absolutely adores, and she’s not just saying that because he may listen to this! Eric Mai introduced Shawn to the world of ERM. [7:07] Shawn started to see all the nexuses that existed between multiple different risks. Shawn says that working in corporate security on risk mitigation is like working at the DOD, but working in ERM is like working at the CIA. [7:42] Shawn was in high school on 9/11, and her mother was on a plane during the 9/11 attacks. Thankfully, she was not on a plane that was targeted on that terrible day. It left a lasting impression. [7:55] Shawn went on to study those types of events in International Affairs and Politics. That’s how she got to her path in the government. Shawn is mission-driven and purposeful in her work. [8:42] Shawn applied to Delta when someone sent her a job posting. Shawn saw the posting and thought it looked like it was written for her. Shawn is thankful it worked out. [8:58] Shawn started as Program Manager for Intelligence and Risk Mitigation. She held that position for almost two years. In December of 2023, Shawn became Manager of ERM. The position did not exist before Shawn. ERM had been one person since 2019, when it was begun. [9:37] Eric Mai set up the ERM program. He realized that for it to continuously improve and grow, he needed another person. He went to bat for that role. Around the time it was posted, Eric came to Shawn and said that she might want to consider it, and he would love to have her apply. [9:57] Shawn is super grateful that Eric asked her. [10:13] Shawn says it is striking that ERM has played a small role in many companies. What if you don’t know who that person is, or you’re not engaging with that person? [10:53] Shawn has noticed that in several industries, the aviation industry included, everything is highly siloed. How does one ERM person get to everybody across the business? How do they make ERM relevant for the leadership and the board? [11:15] Something different could happen any day in the airline industry. Shawn says every day they get a notification from their Duty Director about what the day will look like. Some days, the system looks good: they’re moving tens of thousands of people on several thousand flights. [11:33] Other days, there’s a hurricane or something, or there is a strike somewhere that completely upends the day. It’s a lively environment. [11:56] The American Airlines regional jet and helicopter crash in Washington, D.C. this year put a spotlight on Safety and Risk Managers to ensure they had the proper protocols in place and understood all the communication channels. They double-checked the protocols. [12:40] One thing Shawn loves about the airline industry is that safety is for everyone. There’s no competition in safety. No one places blame. They come together to ensure that they are in the best position to continue to put safety first, not only for customers but also for all employees. [13:17] If Shawn had a mantra, it would be, You get further together than you do as an individual. She learned that from her time in Corporate Safety and Security and as an ERM professional. She could not do her job without relationships and connections across the company. [14:05] Shawn says Delta has a strong governance structure. The risk committee reports to the executive leadership team. ERM meets with the risk committee monthly to talk about what is coming up. ERM tracks that, so as risks build, they remember what was said months ago. [14:29] They prepare themselves for the known events of the next couple of months, such as an upcoming audit, an issue with plane manufacturers, or a suspected coming fleet delay. [14:53] ERM uses its governance structure to think through how to manage the risk, who is responsible, who is touched, what should be reported up to the leadership, and what can be managed at the business level. [15:07] Looking longer-term, ERM recently started talking directly to board members, asking for their perceptions about risk over the next three to five years. ERM also asks that question of the business leadership annually, to make sure management shares the same vision as the board. [15:38] ERM adds value by showing where those visions aligned, or if and when they diverged. Using that information helps inform the broader risk landscape. ERM uses that to engage the Strategy team with their annual goals and pillars; their Annual “Flight Plan.” [16:08] ERM shows the collected data on where risk lies to the Strategy Team and asks how it might affect the Flight Plan and the Five-Year Strategy. It’s the role of ERM to highlight the risks they’ve identified through the forums they’ve engaged. [16:36] Shawn has two on her ERM team, including herself. Her team has strong relationships across Delta. That helps ERM to be a force multiplier. They lean on their colleagues to help stay aware, figure out the best direction to guide ERM efforts, and make an impact where possible. [17:24] Quick Break! RISKWORLD 2026 will be in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, from May 3rd through the 6th. RIMS members can now lock in the 2025 rate for a full conference pass to RISKWORLD 2026 when you register by October 30th! [17:43] This also lets you enjoy earlier access to the RISKWORLD hotel block. Register by October 30th, and you will also be entered to win a $500 raffle! Do not miss out on this chance to plan and score some of these extra perks! [17:57] The members-only registration link is in this episode’s show notes. If you are not yet a member, this is the time to join us! Visit RIMS.org/Membership and build your network with us here at RIMS! [18:09] Save the dates March 18th and 19th, 2026, for The RIMS Legislative Summit, which will be held in Washington, D.C. [18:17] Join us in Washington, D.C., for two days of Congressional Meetings, networking, and advocating on behalf of the risk management community. Visit RIMS.org/Advocacy for more information and updates and to register. [18:33] Let’s return to our interview with Shawn Punancy of Delta Airlines! [19:12] In the heat of a crisis, Delta Airlines has a number of immediate or intermediate response teams that stand up. ERM is a part of those teams. They help inform the strategy for how Delta will respond. In the immediate aftermath, ERM is in listening mode. [19:25] ERM takes what they heard and goes on to support the strategic planning, moving forward. Business Continuity or Corporate Communications will handle the immediate feedback and response. [19:38] If it’s likely to have a long-lasting impact on Delta, ERM will facilitate conversations among stakeholders across the enterprise to ensure that Delta has completely and cleanly exited the crisis and that they’re on a good footing to avoid future crises of the same ilk. [20:05] One Final Break! As many of you know, the RIMS ERM Conference 2025 will be held on November 17th and 18th in Seattle, Washington. We recently had ERM Conference Keynote Speaker Dan Chuparkoff on the show. [20:23] He is back, just to deliver a quick message about what you can expect from his keynote on “AI and the Future of Risk.” Dan, welcome back to RIMScast! [20:34] Dan says, Greetings, RIMS members and the global risk community! I’m Dan Chuparkoff, AI expert and the CEO of Reinvention Labs. I’m delighted to be your opening keynote on November 17th, at the RIMS ERM Conference 2025 in Seattle, Washington. [20:49] Artificial Intelligence is fueling the next era of work, productivity, and innovation. There are challenges in navigating anything new. This is especially true for risk management, as enterprises adapt to shifting global policies, economic swings, and a new generation of talent. [21:07] We’ll have a realistic discussion about the challenges of preparing for the future of AI. To learn more about my keynote, “AI and the Future of Risk Management,”  and how AI will impact Enterprise Risk Management for you, listen to my episode of RIMScast at RIMS.org/Dan. [21:26] Be sure to register for the RIMS ERM Conference 2025, in Seattle, Washington, on November 17th and 18th, by visiting the Events page on RIMS.org. I look forward to seeing you all there. [21:37] Justin thanks Dan and looks forward to seeing him again on November 17th and hearing all about the future of AI and risk management! [21:45] Let’s Conclude Our Interview with One of the Presenters at the RIMS ERM Conference 2025, Shawn Punancy of Delta Airlines! [22:17] There are two opportunities to experience Shawn Punancy in person at the RIMS ERM Conference 2025, November 17th and 18th. She will be presenting with Lianne Appelt, the Head of Enterprise Risk Management at Salesforce: [22:47] Shawn says Lianne is the sweetest person she has ever met! Lianne is one of Justin’s favorite people to work with on the Strategic Enterprise Risk Management Council. [23:24] On November 17th, at 11:45 a.m., Shawn and Lianne will present, “Connections Count: Strategic Networking to Strengthen Risk Oversight.” If you’re a new risk professional or a rising star, and you want to get to the basics, this is the sort of session you attend. [24:05] Shawn gives the elevator pitch for the presentation. She says, if you understand anything about ERM, you understand that it’s not something you can do alone. Having relationships across an enterprise is paramount to the success of any ERM program. [24:22] Figure out what opportunities exist to pursue those relationships. Annual or quarterly risk assessments are natural avenues for building relationships, but there are lots of others. Outside of formal structures, how can you engage people? [24:39] How can you use the data you’ve collected to drive conversations that may not otherwise exist? Those conversations inform you better and equip you better as an ERM professional as you get ready to present to your leadership team, audit committee, or board.  [25:42] Shawn has found that offering external information that may not otherwise be available to her stakeholders is a good way for her to go in and have a conversation.  [26:00] The information she offers is either something she’s gotten from a vendor, or a risk source she has been tracking, or something ERM has done internally but hasn’t publicized. She says, We have this piece of information we think is valuable to you. [26:20] Shawn finds that it’s an incredible way to open doors, strengthen or start relationships, and use that to find a way to continue the conversation iteratively. It’s been incredible for expanding who ERM talks to since Shawn has joined the team. [26:37] ERM already had a broad network, but looking for new opportunities has expanded it. [26:43] Shawn says Never let a good crisis or risk go to waste. ERM gets a daily bulletin of every news clip that mentions Delta. [27:00] ERM uses that as an opportunity to say, We’ve not engaged with you, but we saw this and it’s something worth tracking at a more macro level on this other part of the spectrum. We’d love to talk to you about how the two pieces connect. [27:17] Some of that depends on company culture. Delta is one of those amazing places where you can email just about everybody and they will respond. That has been very helpful for Shawn. She knows that’s not easily replicated everywhere. Shawn has also never met a stranger. [27:41] Understanding that ERM has value to add, whether it’s relaying information or showing interconnections, there’s a lot there, and people are usually responsive. [28:17] Talking to the board goes back to the relationships you have and the conversations you’ve had. If you’re talking to the right people throughout the year, who have access to significant board member concerns, use that to help craft your story. [28:37] Shawn says pairing the insight you’ve gotten from those relationships with the data you have in your program helps drive a compelling narrative. [28:56] On November 18th, at 9:00 a.m., Shawn and Lianne will present an advanced-level session, “How Deep Should You Go?: Rightsizing Risk Assessments for Maximum Impact,” tailoring risk assessments to organizational maturity. [29:21] Shawn says it’s a mistake for an ERM group not to understand what they have at their disposal in terms of data or stakeholders. Everything doesn’t work for everybody. [29:28] You don’t need a major, formalized 16-step assessment process when you’re a new and burgeoning program. An older, more established program doesn't need something overly complex that doesn’t match your company culture. [29:45] Shawn says she has been doing ERM for just shy of two years, so she’s not the foremost expert in the room. She likes to rely on her historical experience of taking a bunch of data and talking to a lot of people, collecting intel, and figuring out what the story is. [30:02] Shawn is super passionate about this. With the 8,000 ways you can do a risk assessment, it’s so important to consider some specific factors that will help you to have a stronger impact when you do the assessment. Shawn will save those for the presentation. [30:55] Shawn says she firmly believes the biggest opportunity for ERM professionals is to find and communicate that interconnected risk. We hear it everywhere. Justin points out that a paper on “Understanding Interconnected Risks” is in this episode’s show notes. [31:13] Shawn thinks that’s the biggest opportunity for ERM. Many teams have their risk evaluation silos. Having someone come in and show how A is connected to D, is connected to X, is the next step and the game-changer for a lot of teams. [31:38] Justin says, I’m looking forward to meeting you in person, and I’m so glad that you’re going to be delivering the two sessions, Monday, November 17th, and Tuesday, November 18th! It was a pleasure to meet you! [32:08] Shawn is very thankful for this opportunity and super excited about talking about this content, partnering with Lianne, and meeting the broader RIMS community. [32;21] Special thanks again to Shawn Punancy of Delta Airlines for joining us here on RIMScast! Be sure to catch her presentations on November 17th and 18th at the RIMS ERM Conference 2025 in Seattle, Washington. [32:27] A link to the agenda is in this episode’s show notes. Register today, we want to see you there! [32:43] Plug Time! You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. Links to sponsored episodes are in the show notes. [33:11] RIMScast has a global audience of risk and insurance professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let’s collaborate and help you reach them! Contact pd@rims.org for more information. [33:28] Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information. [33:45] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today’s risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more. [34:01] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management. [34:15] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org. [34:27] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continuous support!   Links: RIMS ERM Conference 2025 — Nov. 17‒18 RIMS-CRO Certificate Program In Advanced Enterprise Risk Management | Jan‒March 2026 Cohort | Led by James Lam RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy | RIMS Legislative Summit SAVE THE DATE — March 18‒19, 2026 RISKWORLD 2026 — Members-only early registration through Oct 30! RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council RIMS Risk Management magazine | Contribute RIMS Now RIMS Professional Report: “Understanding Interconnected Risks” Upcoming RIMS Webinars: RIMS.org/Webinars “Parametric Insurance: Providing Financial Certainty in Uncertain Times” | Oct. 30, 2025 | Sponsored by Swiss Re “Geopolitical Whiplash — Building Resilient Global Risk Programs in an Unstable World” | Nov. 6 | Sponsored by Hub   Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Prep Virtual Workshops: RIMS-CRMP Virtual Exam Prep — Oct. 29‒30, 2025 RIMS-CRMP-FED Exam Prep Virtual Workshop — November 11‒12 Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule “Intro to ERM for Senior Leaders” | Nov. 4‒5 | Instructor: Elise Farnham “Fundamentals of Insurance” | Nov. 11‒12 | Instructor: Chris Hansen “Leveraging Data and Analytics for Continuous Risk Management (Part I)” | Dec 4. See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops RIMS-CRMP Prep Workshops   Related RIMScast Episodes about ERM: “AI and the Future of Risk with Dan Chuparkoff” (RIMS ERM Conference Keynote) “Tom Brandt on Growing Your Career and Organization with ERM” “James Lam on ERM, Strategy, and the Modern CRO” “ERM, Retail, and Risk with Jeff Strege” “Bigger Risks with the Texas State Office of Risk Management” | Sponsored By Hillwood “ERMotivation with Carrie Frandsen, RIMS-CRMP” “Live from the ERM Conference 2024 in Boston!” “Risk Quantification Through Value-Based Frameworks”   Sponsored RIMScast Episodes: “Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025” | Sponsored by Alliant (New!) “The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience” | Sponsored by AXA XL “Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance” | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company “Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs” | Sponsored by Zurich “Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding” | Sponsored by Zurich “What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings” | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog “Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping” | Sponsored by Medcor “Risk Management in a Changing World: A Deep Dive into AXA's 2024 Future Risks Report” | Sponsored by AXA XL “How Insurance Builds Resilience Against An Active Assailant Attack” | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog “Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips” | Sponsored by Alliant   RIMS Publications, Content, and Links: RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community! RIMS Virtual Workshops On-Demand Webinars RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy RIMS Strategic & Enterprise Risk Center RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Kristen Peed!   RIMS Events, Education, and Services: RIMS Risk Maturity Model®   Sponsor RIMScast: Contact sales@rims.org or pd@rims.org for more information.   Want to Learn More? Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org, and listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.   Have a question or suggestion? Email: Content@rims.org.   Join the Conversation! Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.   About our guest: Shawn Punancy, Sr. Manager, Enterprise Risk Management of Delta Air Lines, Inc.   Production and engineering provided by Podfly.