ROI and You with Tom Dheere

This episode is all about maximizing your business potential, whether you're just starting out or already established in the market.  Learn how to leverage casting platforms for direct bookings and master direct marketing strategies. This episode is packed with actionable insights to increase your return on investment. Implementing mid-year performance reviews can be a game-changer for your business, using powerful tools like cash flow spreadsheets and client churn reports to meticulously track your financials and client engagement. Discover the added value of integrating financial data to set and achieve your financial goals, ensuring sustained success. Explore how to turn one-off projects into recurring gigs and the crucial role of tracking booking sources. Learn how to use social media, direct emails, and client referrals to build a solid client base. 00:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, who says marketing can't be as creative as voice acting? With a VO Boss Blast, we're proving it can be. Let us create a marketing campaign that helps get you hired. Our master list of over 90,000 creative contacts can get your message in front of your potential buyers. Find out more at vobosscom. That's the VO Boss Blast at voboss.com. That's the Voboss Blast at Voboss.com.  00:29 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a Voboss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Real Boss Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with the illustrious Mr Tom Dheere.  00:58 - Tom Dheere (Host) Hello, hello, oh, I'm illustrious now this is very exciting.  01:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You are illustrious, you are illustrious. Oh my gosh Tom, how's your week been?  01:06 - Tom Dheere (Host) My week's been. It's been pretty good. It's been pretty busy. It's one of those weird times of year this is early summer when we're recording this and people are at schools getting out and people are starting to figure out. You know they get their lighting up their vacations and all that stuff.  01:25 So you know, I'm using this time to capitalize on how I'm going to figure out what I'm going to be doing with the second half of my year, because I always, at the end of the halfway point of the year, I take a look at my voiceover business, see how it's doing, what's working and what isn't, and if I need to make any adjustments for the second half of the year.  01:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think that's an excellent idea because, as a matter of fact, I was just this week. I got an email from my email service provider who notified me that they were going to increase the cost of my yearly fee almost like one and a half times as much, and so I was like, oh, I've got to really sit back and take a look at my return on investment, and so I think that is something that bosses need to do absolutely to make sure that their businesses are on track and make sure that their growth is happening. And if it doesn't appear that it is happening, maybe how do you evaluate growth that can happen in the future?  02:17 - Tom Dheere (Host) So, yeah, Okay, so, oh, there's so much to talk about with this one. But, bosses, if there's one thing I want you to walk away with, is that the industry changes constantly. What used to work may not work as well as it used to, or it may not work at all anymore. In my 25 years of being in the voiceover industry, effectiveness is really the key to be a voice actor, and learning what it takes to become effective early in your journey as opposed to what's effective later on in your voiceover journey.  02:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Like mailing CDs to potential clients. I just had to say that which I did, which I did.  02:58 - Tom Dheere (Host) So did I. Let me tell you, my post office hated me so much because I'd come in with a lawn bag of padded mailers and they'd be like oh.  03:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I used to have to walk to my voiceover studio for 10 miles in the snow.  03:11 - Tom Dheere (Host) Sorry, Uphill both ways.  03:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Uphill Anyways. So yeah, how do we determine how effective our businesses are and how do we strategize moving forward?  03:21 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. The ultimate determiner is like how much money am I making? And it's like, okay, did I make more money than I did last year or week or quarter? So that's obviously an indicator. But that's a very broad brushstroke because, like I've noticed over the years, because I track my voiceover revenue meticulously, gig to gig, Doesn't surprise me, Tom. I know right. Not surprising that the VO strategist meticulously tracks his voiceover revenue.  03:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There you go. Well, me too, but I have my accountant that has probably more of a hand in it than me, and then she'll report to me if I need to know things.  03:49 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. So one thing I do like to do what's called a client churn report. So basically I look at the end of every quarter, I look at how many gigs did I have, how much money did I make, how many of them were from new clients, how many of them were from return clients, and then I look at the same quarter from the previous year to see if the amount of money new clients and old clients went up, went down or stayed the same.  04:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now let me ask you what are you recording that data into? Do you have?  04:23 - Tom Dheere (Host) a CRM Okay, okay, I was going to say do you have a?  04:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) CRM. Do you have a CRM? Okay, okay, I was going to say do you have a CRM or do you have a spreadsheet?  04:27 - Tom Dheere (Host) That I do in a spreadsheet because I have a cash flow spreadsheet which tracks every penny that goes into my voiceover business and every penny, that goes out of my voiceover business. It's a free download at voestrategistcom. You can just type in free in the search bar and you can find it and download it. It and you can find it and download it. It also helps you run reports. It's got little auto sums and I've got little formulas in there so it can help track your stuff.  04:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's awesome, tom, and can that be integrated? Like would I be able to export reports from my QuickBooks and be able to import, do you think into that's a?  04:55 - Tom Dheere (Host) great question. It may require some reformatting.  04:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Finagling.  05:00 - Tom Dheere (Host) And a little finagling, but actually I'm so glad this came up. When it comes to analyzing your voiceover business, that cash flow spreadsheet does so many things. It tracks all the money that I make. I also list all of my revenue and expense goals for the month, the quarter and the year. But here's the other fun thing that it does I have little columns where I have little codes. So, for example, there are three what I call portals in the voiceover industry. I'm sure I've talked about this before Representation, online casting sites and self-marketing which includes inbound and outbound marketing.  05:34 So every time I book a voiceover gig, in that column I write down whether it was RE, which it was a gig I booked through my representation, if it's OC, through an online casting site, either free or pay-to-play, like Voice123. And then the last one is S-M, or self-marketing, which means did it happen as a result of a cold call or a cold email, or indirect? Is it a result of someone finding me on Google?  05:59 Or was I referred to that client by a fellow voice actor or a fellow client, because I have clients who refer me to clients all the time and so whenever I type that in, there's a little section to the side of the spreadsheet that has, by revenue and by percentage, how much money I'm making based on the portal that I'm doing. It also does it for genre. I have a column for genres e-learning, commercial, industrial.  06:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, that's awesome. I love this. And you say that this is a free download.  06:25 - Tom Dheere (Host) It's a free download, that's awesome, that's a great tracker. Yeah, because it lets me know just how I'm doing with the genre of voiceover, because you can break it down by genre and you can also break it down by portal. But I'm not getting all my e-learning through one portal and I'm not getting all my explainers through one portal.  06:44 Because sometimes I'll get an explainer through one of my reps. It's rare but it happens. But I'll get a lot of e-learning through online casting sites and self-marketing, so to be able to really look and see how my voiceover business is doing and be able to go to last year's spreadsheet and see how it's doing I love that, tom.  07:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that you have a free resource. I have to. I'm sorry I didn't have to exclaim that and interrupt you and say that, because I will tell you that I created a spreadsheet myself when I started to track auditions, to track jobs that I booked. It is a thing you do have to remember to put the information in, but it was very, very valuable to find out and I'll tell you, I love a person who can really work a spreadsheet, because you've got it all figured out already, yeah, and you've got the columns there. I mean, bosses, take advantage of this. We're going to put a link in the show notes. Okay, continue, tom. I'm sorry.  07:32 - Tom Dheere (Host) I got so excited.  07:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I had to interrupt you.  07:34 - Tom Dheere (Host) Well, yeah, I've been building this spreadsheet for 20 years.  07:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, I think 2004,.  07:38 - Tom Dheere (Host) 2005 is when I first built this spreadsheet first built this spreadsheet, so I'm looking at it right now.  07:43 So yeah, genre so like. For example, so far this year, 23.8% of my voiceover revenue has come from e-learning. But also I do it as the VO strategist. So it also tells me how many 15 minute consults I've booked, how many one-on-one coaching sessions I've done, how many conference appearances, how many mentorship sessions, how many people bought my videos at the VO strategist. So I use it for both as a voice actor and both as the VO Strategist, because this is tracking all the money.  08:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, good, I'm going to download it to track and ganguza business. However, I will say that there's reports that are generated off of QuickBooks or whatever your accounting software is, but I like that you have the added columns. Like I can't add a column in QuickBooks that says where did you book the job?  08:25 - Tom Dheere (Host) Well, I probably could, but I haven't done that that's why I stopped using all the accounting software in most of the CRMs, because it wasn't giving me the data that I need. Also this is a running total that I can see on my screen all at the same time. Here's another one no-transcript.  08:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Everybody talks about that.  08:56 - Tom Dheere (Host) I believe it's one of the most useless data points there is, and here's the reason, and you know this.  09:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm going to agree with you, but I want to hear your reason.  09:05 - Tom Dheere (Host) The reason why is because the casting process is so random and arbitrary.  09:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes.  09:11 - Tom Dheere (Host) Because the best voice actor does not always get the gig, get the gig.  09:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes.  09:15 - Tom Dheere (Host) And the best audition doesn't always get the gig. Like there's a great documentary called that Guy who was in that thing? And it's about 12 character actors in Hollywood and you know all their faces but you don't know any of their names and they talk about what it's like being a character actor on TV and film in Hollywood and one of them talks about the absurdity of the casting process and he says something like one week I'll get a gig because I remind the casting director of her brother-in-law.  09:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah.  09:42 - Tom Dheere (Host) And then two weeks later, I won't get the gig because I remind the casting director of her brother-in-law.  09:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely so.  09:48 - Tom Dheere (Host) we have no earthly idea what the thought process is behind a voice seeker. There's another story of how a woman cast a male voice actor and she was asked why did you cast that person? And she said he sounds like my father.  10:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Mm-hmm.  10:06 - Tom Dheere (Host) And then, upon further conversation, she said I trust my father.  10:10 So, that means A I trust my father. B I want a trusting sound, for this voiceover equals C. I want someone to do this voiceover who sounds like my father Absolutely. But what if her father sounds like Gilbert Gottfried or Bobcat Goldthwait and they probably have kids? I know Gilbert Gottfried had kids, I don't know about Bobcat but and I'm sure if their children hear their voice it's a trusting I'm going to be okay, I'm safe. But that doesn't work for the rest of the universe.  10:40 Absolutely so, that's why that's kind of an absurd thing to analyze.  10:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I just want to tailgate off of that really quickly. I don't want to get off the track of what's my ROI. However, that's why you don't self-sabotage yourself if you thought, well, I did a great audition and I didn't book the gig, or I'm not good enough, don't let that feed into. I mean, of course, you want to be a great performer and a great actor. That always gives you, I think, the most competitive advantage. However, the casting process is wild and crazy, and anybody that's taken an audition demolition class with Law and myself we've done, I believe, six of them so far. By the way, you can check them out on the VO Boss YouTube channel if you want to watch one.  11:20 Sometimes there is no rhyme or reason as to why you receive a job, and so I agree with you there that tracking that is not always going to give you the most useful information. However, I know people will be like, well, my booking ratio on Voice123 or my booking ratio on Voicescom. Again, in reality, all you can do, I think, is validate that you have ample opportunities, right, right, right. And within those opportunities, it would be nice if you, on average, booked a certain percentage, but again, I wouldn't let that dictate whether that is a good return on investment, would you agree?  11:53 - Tom Dheere (Host) It doesn't necessarily dictate your worth as a voice actor.  11:57 What it can dictate for the pay-to-play sites in particular, anne, is how effectively are you feeding the algorithms to give you the casting opportunities that you want, that you're right for, and are you effectively auditioning for the casting notices that those algorithms served up? So, with that in mind, I do track my booking ratio on Voice123. I have the $2,200 tier, so I have the second highest tier. So obviously I want to make sure there's a return on my investment. However, the number is skewed because I I'll give you a perfect example Two years ago on Voice123, I booked a gig.  12:34 I did an audition. It was for a grocery store chain doing an internal video about produce. I think it was about bananas. You know, like, if you work in their produce department, here's how to make sure the bananas, how not to bruise them, how to check them for quality, how to display them properly, how to rotate out bananas that are going to expire or whatever. And it was one gig $550 for like a three-minute in-house thing, directed session took all of 15 minutes. It's like okay, perfect. A month later they needed one on shrimp. A month later they needed one on avocados.  13:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I did not audition for those. You didn't have to audition, but you got the job. Yes, right, the recurring client.  13:11 - Tom Dheere (Host) But if I wasn't on Voice123, I would not have gotten that casting opportunity.  13:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) The majority of my work, too, is a lot of referral clients. Referrals and or clients that I got because I'm on pay-to-plays but not on a certain subscription level just because of my schedule, and so therefore I can't really count that. But I still get, believe it or not, if my profile is up there, every once in a while I will get a direct job, and then that client will come back.  13:35 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, right. So, with that in mind, on the spreadsheet, the cash flow spreadsheet, I do have a new column where I track audition bookings versus direct bookings.  13:45 Oh, okay, so audition bookings versus direct bookings. Oh okay. So how much did I get? Was this an audition and pray gig or was this a legacy client gig? So, just as an example as of this conversation, my direct booking percentage is 79% and my audition booking is 21%, which means roughly 80-20. Four out of every five bookings that I get, I didn't have to audition for them. Now, that is something that a lot of voice actors.  14:10 Yeah, that tells me something about my business model and it tells me about my effectiveness in marketing, about my effectiveness in auditioning and my effectiveness in client retention, because it's one thing to book a client once, it's another thing to book a client twice, and it's another thing to book a client a few times a year for years and I have a couple clients.  14:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, I have some clients I've worked with for decades, myself too, and I don't audition for them.  14:33 - Tom Dheere (Host) Some of them I never auditioned for in the first place, I just sent them the demo and then they're like, okay, great, and they here's your first gig work, which is right, that's the best kind of client, isn't it? That's a regular client, the one that you don't have to market to or audition for. However, audition and pray, I think, should be part of a balanced breakfast of all voice actors, whether it's through their agents, or through a casting site, or whether it's through their marketing strategy.  14:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Agreed Because auditioning and pray I mean. First of all, it gets you exposed to potential new clients in a multitude of ways. Because, first of all, if the agent hears you continually submitting good auditions, they might refer you to someone or they might shortlist you. Even if the client doesn't pick you, or if the client hears the audition and they may not cast you this time, they may save you for a future casting or come back to you for a different casting.  15:26 - Tom Dheere (Host) Here's another example. So for you VO bosses who have or are considering working with Anne, you decide you want to work with Anne. You want to get e-learning coaching. You may have been in the business for a little while. You may have gotten a smattering of e-learning gigs here and there, but now you want to really hunker down, get some quality training, get a quality demo, come up with a quality marketing strategy. So you work with Ann, you get your e-learning coaching, you produce a spectacular e-learning demo and then, of course, then we say Ann, what do I do now? And then she talks to you about marketing strategies. So you start to market that demo. The other thing you do is you put that demo on your website. So you come up with a marketing campaign. I'm going to put this demo on my website. I'm going to build a list of potential e-learning clients and if you have already done some e-learning work, it's supplemented by the work you've already gotten from existing e-learning clients and then you put it out there. Direct email.  16:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Direct email through a boss blast. Put it out there.  16:27 - Tom Dheere (Host) Direct email, direct email through a boss blast or direct email for cold calling, exactly, posting it on social media, talking to people on LinkedIn, so on and so forth. That's where this spreadsheet and your analytics can be an extremely powerful tool, because you can decide all right, this e-learning marketing campaign is going to take one month, so the first of the month the page the e-learning landing page goes live, and then you start through the VO Boss Blast. You start scheduling and sending emails to potential current and past e-learning clients. You post content on social media, you do things on LinkedIn. Maybe you record a video on TikTok or Instagram or YouTube talking about the demo or your experience with Ann or any part of your journey which is a part of helping people see your humanity.  17:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And, by the way, with any good coach right, I will if you provide a testimonial page. I also put demos on my YouTube channel, so there's the marketing that happens through that as well. So you're getting potential opportunities as well as my own referrals to you.  17:27 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, so you do all of that stuff and then at the end of the month, now you can figure out.  17:32 These are the analytics, so you can obviously go to your website, regardless of where the website was built. You should have some form of dashboard where you can look at how many times did people visit your e-learning landing page, how many times did they listen to your e-learning demo, how many times did they download? Because remember, that's the most important part of a campaign like this is to get downloads. You want people to download your e-learning demo and have it on file for when a project comes up that you would be right for. They have that demo on hand because they're not going to remember you and they're not going to remember your website. It may not be bookmarked. That's why most voice seekers and Anne may agree that most of them have a folder, a file of digital shoebox of some sort that has a pile of demos. Absolutely, and when a project comes along, because the odds of you emailing somebody your demo and the odds that they have a project that you're perfect for.  18:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) At that time Extremely slim. It's all about timing.  18:26 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, it's all about timing.  18:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I just did a teachable moment all about timing. Like you just don't know when people are going to need or require your service and you can't expect that just because you got the demo yesterday that there are all these people that need something today.  18:40 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. So you have to manage your expectations by the analytics. So should it be e-learning bookings in that one month? I don't think that would be fair to you because it's extremely unlikely. What you can look at is how many times did they go to your website, how many times did they listen to that demo? How many times did they download that demo? How many emails were opened and clicked on?  18:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You brought up a really good point. Is that? Okay? So a boss blast. You can go to the VO boss page to find out more about the Boss Blast. But the Boss Blast is simply allowing to cast the net out into a potential audience that could have a need, and you don't know exactly at what time that need is. So there's that direct marketing from the Boss Blast. But also I love the point that you brought up about the website.  19:23 Bosses, you have a website, it is a tool, it is your storefront. It is your responsibility to have enough knowledge about that tool so that you can go find out, like did somebody download my demo? How many times has the page been visited? Right? Because, just as there is with the Boss Blast, we have statistics. I can work with you, like when we send out a campaign, we have all the stats, we know who it was sent to, we know who opened it and we know who clicked. Now, once they get to your website right, they can click either the demo that's there or they can click on your website, and so once they do that, that's it. I just know that they've gone to your website.  20:00 Now, on your website, you need to be responsible for how many times has that been downloaded, how many times has that page been visited? And that can really help to see who's listening to your demo and what your booking ratio could be after that. And so those stats are important to know. So if you do not know how to access the back end of your website and we will have a podcast probably very shortly on just websites you must make it a point to educate yourself, and if you've had a website designer that did that for you, then you must either ask them how do you find out these stats right? Can they set up Google to actually allow you to see those stats, so when people visit your website, that you can find those stats and just know that, even if you may not be technically minded, you should really educate yourself on how to find that information out. That's important stuff to know. Sorry, I'm on my soapbox there, but gosh, it's so important.  20:52 - Tom Dheere (Host) No, that's amazing advice, Anne. Now here's the next part about this is here's some real life, practical real life experience that I have had this year is that one of the genres that I've been focusing on in 2024 is political. Over $10 billion is being spent on political marketing and advertising this year, so I updated my political demo. I've already had a list of political contacts because I've been marketing myself as a political voice actor since 2022.  21:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Are you direct marketing yourself, or are you on a roster as well?  21:24 - Tom Dheere (Host) Both, I'm on rosters, but I'm also direct marketing. I did a direct marketing, I did a direct marketing email blast, updated my political landing page and I sent out, I'd say over the past month and a half, roughly 150 emails to production companies that are dedicated to and specialize in creating political content radio, tv, digital streaming that require a voice actor. And do you want to guess how many replies I got to this?  21:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) email of 150?. Oh, I can imagine.  21:54 - Tom Dheere (Host) I can imagine the answer is zero, zero Now. At first I freaked out.  22:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But did you get hired?  22:01 - Tom Dheere (Host) No.  22:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Ah, okay, not yet.  22:03 - Tom Dheere (Host) Okay. So the question is what's going on? So, after some reflection and talking to other political voice actor friends, is they are so busy. These political production companies are so busy they do not have the time to open, much less read, any of my emails, much less click on the link download the demo or reply.  22:26 They don't have the time because everything has gone bananas this year, so because the debates have started the conventions are starting soon and then everybody's going to go crazy, from the presidential election all the way down to dog catcher and everything in between. However, I do have some existing clients who just send me work. They're like hey, here's another one, Can you do it today? Hey, I've got these five spots. I need them by first thing in the morning.  22:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Is that going to stop you from sending a direct email in the?  22:55 - Tom Dheere (Host) future? No, not at all.  22:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I wanted you to make that point.  22:57 - Tom Dheere (Host) Because this particular genre at this particular time of year. I have now, through experience, learned to manage my expectations about what's going to happen Because, like nowadays, if you're doing a direct marketing email, if you're getting one, to 2% of people replying to you, you're doing good, that's awesome.  23:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, that's what I tell my boss blast people yes, if you're getting one to 2% click or open you used to look for. If you get a 10% open rate and then 1% click rate.  23:26 - Tom Dheere (Host) Those days are over.  23:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah Well, 1% is good. So, yeah, it's absolutely good. But there's still again if you know your audience and you know what to write to them, it's still effective. I would still say there are still people that open their emails and there's always that chance.  23:39 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, so the point is just because they didn't reply to your email. I guarantee there's a folder in their Gmail or their inbox where they just took that email and just dragged it into that folder.  23:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, which is why when I go through stats with people because we will go through who opened it and who clicked on it but then after that you don't know what they're going to do with it and, honestly, unless you're hacking into their systems, you really don't know if they've put it into a folder or not. I love the fact that you also are mentioning that you have to manage your expectations. Again, it's about timing and managing expectations as well, but that initial data can really help you to find out is it worth your investment?  24:18 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. So the aforementioned e-learning direct marketing campaign that you do from the Boss Blast yeah, looking at how many people opened it, how many people clicked on the demo, how many people downloaded the demo, which, if you're using a good CRM like there's a bunch of great CRMs out there which we could talk about in another conversation it can give you a good idea of what's going on.  24:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They don't have to download the demo either. They could just play it. Do you know what I mean? That's the other thing too. And they keep the email without downloading the demo.  24:44 - Tom Dheere (Host) So again, it's like everybody has different habits. Some people will save the email, not open it. Some people will save the email, open it. Some people save the email, open it. Click on the demo, listen to it, but not download it.  24:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Some people save the email and then forget about it right so that you need to consistently right every once in a while.  25:00 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, do a follow-up every few months. Do a follow-up in that top-of-mind email, right, Right. So the lesson here, bosses, is that analytics don't always tell the story. You can't live or die by your analytics, but at the end of a year I can look and go, okay. Here's a trend Right. Here's an example 2023, looking at the three portals. So last year, 12% of my voiceover revenue came from my representation, 49% came from online casting sites, 23% came through direct marketing strategies, 16% came through indirect marketing strategies.  25:38 Now, if you look at five years ago 2019, I had my representation percentage was one or 2%.  25:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, and I would say your pay to play your roster was high pay-to-play was non-existent because I wasn't a paid member of oh, that's right. At that time I took a long break because in the beginning I had a high percentage rate right, but my direct and indirect marketing strategy was like 81, but I also made 20% less in 2019 than I do in 2024.  26:10 - Tom Dheere (Host) So how did me going from focusing on direct and direct marketing to focusing on online casting sites, increase my representative percentage? What happened? What are the analytics? This is my theory. In 2019, I auditioned 450 times. The whole year 2023, I auditioned 1,854 times. I got better at auditioning. Voice123 made me a better auditioner because I got reps in. Also, it helped me keep a better idea on casting trends. What are people?  26:40 - Intro (Announcement) looking for.  26:41 - Tom Dheere (Host) How can I read a casting notice and match it up with who I am and what I can provide as a problem solver, as a voice actor? That fed into increasing the quality of my representation auditions. I got better auditioning on online casting sites and, by extension, I got better at auditioning for my reps. So that's why I went from like 1% or 2% in 2019 to, five years later, booking 12% of my revenue.  27:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that. I think it's kind of like goal setting right If you don't write it down. It's kind of like in your head you're like but I've auditioned, but I've sent my direct marketing email, or I've sent my emails and I've done my marketing, but in reality if you're not writing it down or recording it, it's really hard to track what you've done. I mean, it wasn't until I started tracking my auditions and where I was booking and it helped me to determine a genre. Oh, I should pursue more work in this area. There's so many things you can learn from it, from just recording it. So consider it like a goal right. Consider that document recording and gosh, it doesn't get any easier than downloading a free template from Tom.  27:42 - Intro (Announcement) Dheere's website.  27:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's for darn sure. I mean really. This has been such an enlightening conversation, tom. I mean the amount of information you can find out just by tracking your return on investment where are you auditioning, where are you spending your money, where are things happening can really inform you to make great decisions about how to evolve and how to move your business forward. So do it, guys. Download that document and understand that, yes, this is a marathon, not a sprint. We'll probably say that for every podcast that I work with with you, tom. I mean, I say that all the time, but you guys it is. Tom, thanks so much for your invaluable wisdom on this. I love that you're such a geek about all of this, and if anybody can produce a really cool spreadsheet, I'm sure it's Tom Dheere.  28:22 - Tom Dheere (Host) I am a happy mutant, so yeah.  28:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All right. Big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can network, connect and download documents like a boss. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Thanks, tom Bye.  28:40 - Intro (Announcement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.