Michael Shellenberger talks to Quillette's Jonathan Kay about his new book Apocalypse Never: Why Environmental Alarmism Hurts Us All

Michael Shellenberger, President of Environmental Progress, talks to Jonathan Kay about global warming, natural disasters, media scaremongering—and why the world is actually getting safer, notwithstanding the scaremongering of Extinction Rebellion. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices