Post-Globalization Monarchist Philosophy: With the Aristocratic Utensil

In this episode, we are joined by Spoon, the YouTube personality known for his monarchist leanings. We dive into topics like the relevance of democracy today and possible alternatives. Spoon discusses his journey into politics, influenced by changing cultural and political landscapes, and how he arrived at his unconventional views. We also explore the dynamics between left and right-wing ideologies, the role of church and state, and the challenges of modern governance. This engaging dialogue bridges historical perspectives with contemporary issues, making for a thought-provoking session. Simone Collins: [00:00:00] Hello everyone. We're so excited today to be joined by a very special guest, spoon, the aristocratic utensil on YouTube as well as on X. Although your handle on X is at Aris. Malcolm Collins: And what I wanted to talk about today was voting ooh and democracy and is it relevant anymore? And where would, how could you construct better systems? And I thought that you'd be a great person to have on with this, especially talking with us because I know that you had like monarchist leanings, people have called our political beliefs. Plu Tists. I'm interested to hear more from you. The Aristocratic Utensil: Hmm. Oh, basically, how did I get to my views? Malcolm Collins: Yeah, well, did you, were, did you grow up? Why do you think it's better? Why you think it's, you know, a, a good structure, what a perfect country would look like? The Aristocratic Utensil: Hmm. Okay. So it's kind of weird how I even got into politics in general because if I, if I were to look at like my 6-year-old self and my 30 5-year-old self and go, you are gonna be on YouTube one day talking about [00:01:00] politics, I would go, okay, what, what the hell happened in my life that made me take an interest in politics, let alone monarchy? How, how did I get to that? That's just bizarre. I don't how and it was ba it was basically because a friend of mine several years ago this was like back in early 2010s, I wanna say. Hmm. Before Bernie Saunas really hit the scene, but she was also a Bernie fan. The, this, this is show you how long the culture has shifted for, and just a very short amount of time actually is that she was a. Californian girl who was let's just say she was built in a very feminine way. She's from California, but lefty perspectives, but she control like, an absolute a*****e right? Winger, which by today's standards makes no sense, an extremely lefty person, but they, but they spit right? Rightwing insults. Yes. Like she would drop slurs in a way that would get you banned on Twitter within 30 seconds which is not a human being that exists today. Standard. And she got me into [00:02:00] Bernie Sa as, as as a political figure. And then right about the time he said a couple of things that made me as a South African go, that's just factually not true. Hmm. He said, white people don't know what it's like to be poor. And I went mathematically, that doesn't even add up. That's just, that is not true. And the way he spoke about certain. Racial policies made me go. Okay. Were you, Malcolm Collins: were you a a like Bernie supporter at this point? Like you liked him as a political candidate? The Aristocratic Utensil: Yes, I think, okay, so I said this in one of my streams and I think this is what makes you go further left leaning and what makes you right wing. Mm-hmm. Is that from the, the old liberal perspective, I do think it is based upon a lot of people can look at the system and go, there is a lot of corruption. There is a lot of unnecessary government control in places they shouldn't be. And they sort of just look at the, the current paradigm and go, [00:03:00] this is not a moral system. And the problem is they look at this situation and go, there should be state intervention. What they're really looking for is morality in the state. Hmm. Whereas if you are a right winger, you'll recognize this doesn't work. Right. And so you'll, you'll tend to go from more libertarian perspective, which is just these institutions are beyond repair because they incentivize a certain behavior that you cannot generate just through powering through the institutions. You have to structure them in a way that actually make the. Political class want to benefit the citizenry and the way that they want the system to work just does not gel with human nature. Hmm. And when you go from that perspective, you can go, okay, now you have to shift libertarian or go completely insane and advocate from monarchy in the 21st century. That's more the route that I took, whereas the opposite end of leftism, they are just moed motivated [00:04:00] purely by envy. It's just that I cannot compete in this system, and so I must smash it to b***h in the hopes that whatever comes next will appeal to me. And I've seen the people who go for that, and I don't want to be disrespectful, but there's not a brain cell in those people. Like really, they are completely driven by this fantasy idea of an idealized bureaucracy. It's kind of weird. They, yeah. This is the way I'm describing these people is whatever I wish to see in a king. They wish to see an entire bureaucracy that abides by their morality. Simone Collins: That's a great way of putting it. Yeah, because what, what I feel differently about what you were saying is you were saying that like the sort of the leftist leaning is smash what exists and then rebuild it. Whereas I think that was how it was for a while and then it turned to just have the government fix it. Like fix the, yeah, because they're Taiwan. Fix the, yeah, fix the market failure. And then this assumption that the entire government can suddenly. Oh, trust The Aristocratic Utensil: me. Do that on a whim. Yes. I, Malcolm Collins: I really like [00:05:00] a point you made here and I'd elevate it as I think that this is distinctly part of what makes the new Right. Quite different from the old, right, which is the new right. Isn't particularly sold around one government ideology. It's more just that they actually want to fix things and they have multiple hypotheses about how that can be done. And there is like active debate and active attempts to implement this. We even see with like Elon and Trump's government right now or JD Vance you know, talking about like economic issues that would typically be outside the normal, right. Whereas the left just wants to not have to worry about money and that can be achieved through printing money or taking money. The Aristocratic Utensil: They're basically materialists. I would say the biggest problem that the right has, and this is gonna sound a bit strange, but there is an aspect that the left, this makes no sense if I say it out loud, so I have to explain this, unpack this a bit, is the left understands humanity and the right does not.[00:06:00] Which I'm aware that Yes. Here's what I mean by that. The the Harry on the Lotus, he has pointed this out as well, 'cause him and I were having a conversation about this is that the way that the, the left operates is they claim the champion egalitarianism and equality equal rights and all this stuff, but the way they behave when power is militantly hierarchical, Malcolm Collins: yes, The Aristocratic Utensil: there's control from the top and anything down below, there's no dissent. It's one man follow, like a general in an, in an army. It's why they make such powerful roads because they actually abide by how humans actually function. The problem with it is the ideas they implement don't work 'cause they don't abide by human nature. What the right doesn't recognize is this is how your opposition plays the game, is they will make you abide by their rules and they just hack the system because they know that as long as you play by those rules, you will lose and they can do whatever the hell they want. That's something that the right needs to learn is that if you wish to get in [00:07:00] power, is that your opposition just gets power and imposes their will. What you have to do is getting power and force your worldview down their throat. This is the same way they do to You don't this, this thing, this, this is an idea of No, no, no. Ideas must be challenged and ideas must be debate and like yet that's a nice ideal if everyone is playing the same game. Yeah. However, if you're not playing the same game, then it's, I have the biggest stick and I'm gonna beat the crap outta you with it. And people think this is oppressive, but this is how the world works. Malcolm Collins: Structurally, how do you do that? Like if you were giving advice, I mean, I feel like right now when I look at what the Trump administration is doing this cycle, I'm like, wow, like this is exactly what I've always wanted to see a president do. Like would you be telling them to do something different or do you think they finally like figured it out? The Aristocratic Utensil: I think if you were to just get, okay. I would think America's biggest problem is separation of church and state is, I don't think, I don't think that is a good idea. I think [00:08:00] any sane civilization. The church and state must be wielded if it's gonna survive Malcolm Collins: because, oh, here's an area where I would disagree really strongly. I think combining the church and the state always ends up watering down the church was more progressive or secular ideals, as we've seen happen to the church in the uk. Simone Collins: Well, but we also have that America, we're moving in in more spoons direction because the domestic policy in America, Haley is part of broader, broader efforts to reshape domestic policy, including the establishment of the White House faith office. Which was established via executive order on February 7th, and it aims to pretty badass into faith based perspectives. Malcolm Collins: That is pretty badass. Yes. No, but hold on, hold on, hold on. Because I actually believe this very strongly. I think that in the US and in the uk, some churches have liberalized, but within the uk, like the church that always ends up liberalizing, one of the most is whenever you have, at least to my knowledge, pretty much in every country where you have a church and state integration and that church and state integration is a Christian one rather [00:09:00] than a Muslim one. The state ends up corrupting the church and making it very progressive. So if we had a state-based version of Christianity in the US, it would be one of the most progressive versions. I was just watching a great video with the dean. It would be Simone Collins: Univers, Unitarian Universalist. Yeah. Yeah. And he Malcolm Collins: was the oldest churches in the us are always the most progressive, and the newer churches are always the more conservative. What are your thought thoughts on that? The Aristocratic Utensil: I wonder if that's more an American phenomenon. Hmm. Ooh. Because I don't, I think that scales depending on the culture around them. The reason I say this is because I actually think it's, it's about the competing sex of Christianity. Because the reason I say this is because I've had conversations with American Protestants and the Protestants back home, and what I find interesting is that South Africa's Christian sect comes from like the French Huguenots that were trying to escape Catholic persecution in France, and you have Germans and you've got Dutch Mix, and there's no other competing sect of [00:10:00] Christianity. It's just Protestants. Mm-hmm. So there's no like Russian Orthodox or, I mean there is now, I suppose, but there's no, there's no like mixture of competing ideologies. And so there's just the one, and I get the feeling that if it's just like this one that everyone relies on, then okay. Yeah. It is more, I suppose it is easier to change the culture if you happen to permeate the. The church and change it from the inside, but it is also more protective because everyone knows like, yeah, this is the only entrance you can go. The change is through this one institution, like there's no other entrances. So I'm wondering if the competition of many also makes it easier to spread the ideology in ways, like what you just said is like age is a variation that you just brought up. I'm not saying this is the case. I'm just wondering if if that might be. Yeah, we, we actually Malcolm Collins: have talked about this a lot on the show because it's something that we study to try to understand how to like, keep cultures protected. And a really common phenomenon you see across religions is if a religion is connected to the state, like if, or, or even the majority of the population, like if a Catholic majority population in a [00:11:00] country the Catholics in that country will be very, very loosey goosey Catholics. But if they are a minority, particularly a oppressed minority, then they will be much more conservative and rigid in following their beliefs. And I can understand why that would be the case. The Aristocratic Utensil: That's probably why. It's because if they're, if they're a minority, they feel threatened. If they feel threatened, they will take whatever is closest as a defensive mechanism and bolster it. Malcolm Collins: Yeah. The Aristocratic Utensil: And once, once something becomes more mainstream, it becomes more watered down. I. Malcolm Collins: That is a question I had for you based on what you were saying earlier. Is aligning government worker incentives with sort of like, like what is good for the people? I've written extensively on this particular subject because I think it's really interesting. The way that, like I wrote is probably the best you could do that is to separate the different incentives that you would want for a state and then build voting patterns based on each of those incentives. IE like the amount that you're paying in taxes determines [00:12:00] your vote within one branch of the government. How many kids you have determines your vote within another branch of the government. I'm wondering how you look to do this within a monarchist system, or was it any sort of a system that, that you would think of? Like how do you align the government bureaucrat's incentive with the people? The Aristocratic Utensil: I quite like what you just pitched there, like, almost like a scoring based system for your sway in power. Yeah, that's, that's kind of cool actually. But my, my only problem, so, okay. I can Malcolm Collins: explain how my government system works. No, no, no. I wanna hear Simone Collins: his only problem with that comment. Okay. The Aristocratic Utensil: My, my, my only problem that I have with, with democracy in general, and I was reading a, a short stint by a book by James, I think it was James Brennan the case against, or like Against Democracy. And one of the other things that, that he points out with is that there is an idea of democracy in a sort of idealistic way, is that if you give people information, they will vote in a certain direction that is more in line with their interests. That makes sense on paper. The problem is you can have the [00:13:00] smartest people in the world, but if everyone you vote for is a corrupt a*****e, the geniuses of your population goes nowhere. I actually asked this on Twitter. I said, if you could have a smart population or moral politicians, what would you have? Like 90% said moral politicians. Like the intelligence of the population did not matter because they said those who are in the state are the ones who make the policy, and those are the people that matter. The voice of the people in the grand scheme of things does not matter if everyone that you can vote for is a prick, which is like, oh God. Yeah. Like I, I was, I was listening to some of the people that are like outspoken democrats today. Yeah. And I said to a friend of mine, did you realize the most rational Democrat right now is probably John Fetterman? Malcolm Collins: Honestly, the best. Yeah. I, I like John Fetterman. He's, he's, he's local to us, and I'm like, if John Fetterman won and then ran in the next election cycle for president, I think he'd be a really hard person to beat. Simone Collins: Yep. The Aristocratic Utensil: That's the guy with like a literal brain injury is the most functional one. That it's like an SNL skit. Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Well, [00:14:00] no, no, no. We've been on SNL skit mode since 2016. This has been great. Yeah. The Aristocratic Utensil: It's, yeah. It also kinda makes me embarrassed when I just look at human civilization. I sort of look at this and go find what Simone Collins: we, the interesting timeline. Don't you wanna be in the interesting timeline? The Aristocratic Utensil: I'd rather be in a functional timeline. Simone Collins: Lame. I disagree. I'm, The Aristocratic Utensil: I'm very boring. I'm a guy. This is where I may Malcolm Collins: disagree the most with you because I love people. I, I was on, I don't know, one, some show on, on, on, I Dunno, Fox or something. And they were like, oh, aren't you tired of being the rebellion? And I was like, no, no. Being the rebellion's the best, this is awesome. I am fighting a big, bad evil. I have my, my collection of, of Rudy Tootie. Like in fact, in fact, I almost think if we won and we began consolidating power I may feel an instinct to switch sides because I feel like, am I just like a voice of the state now? The Aristocratic Utensil: Yeah. That, that is a, a, a way to view it. [00:15:00] But I would say. There's a certain kind of monotonous thing about it is that you're just constantly cheering for your side. And I, I do understand the aspect of it. It is more fun to be the rebel that punches, whereas there's a certain element of, how can I say this? Like aristocratic haughtiness of just like, oh, we're in power now and we get, dictate what we want. Maha ha ha. And you come across like an evil villain. But then I also look at my opposition and go, when you are in power, this is what you did to me. I'm going to enjoy crushing your soul for the next four years. I mean, and I'll be very villainous about it because I have the accent for it. So, haha. Simone Collins: I, I, Malcolm Collins: I, yeah, if you got it, Simone Collins: flaunt, Malcolm Collins: I worry as well. I mean, I see this instinct on part of the Right, right. But they haven't been successful in influencing the, the, at least the Trump administration and the position of power right now. And I think that this is enormously good. If you look at where the Trump administration is actually counting its wind right now. And Trump is even said this in some of his speeches. He focuses only on 90 10 issues. [00:16:00] And I think, yeah, that this is really smart because we don't want to have happened to us. What happened to the wokes in the culture war, which is we let our version of like trans activists that are pushing things that like wouldn't even win was in our own party as our mainstream message and then get the general public to hate us. And I think Trump has been, while he has been like absolutely brutal on the stuff that every American agrees on, like Doge and USAID and everything like that, and the trans people in sports, he hasn't pushed over the line. And there was actually an issue, Simone, where you wanted him to push over the line and then you were like, oh, I actually appreciate, what was the issue? I can't remember. You are like, why won't he go over on this? Oh, Simone Collins: no. Daylight savings. Yeah, sorry. Daylight Malcolm Collins: savings. Yeah. You wanted him to abolish daylight savings. Yeah. I guess most rationally people do an issue. Simone Collins: Yeah. He, he points out that this a The Aristocratic Utensil: surprisingly popular issue to abolish daylight savings. And I don't, is there a particular reason why I'm, I'm, I've just seen a lot of people do it. I go, why is this like an issue saving? 'cause Simone Collins: an hour is [00:17:00] stolen from your weekend once every year. It is the worst holiday of the year Malcolm Collins: weekend. But Simone, you, you, the specific argument you laid out for me is specifically, Simone Collins: so it has been scientifically shown that on Daylight Savings Day because of the schedule change, 'cause not everyone is on board in that organized there is a spike in hospitalizations and heart attacks and, and I think strokes as well. Because of the stress associated with the time change. Now, I would argue that simplifying the tax code with the IRS would probably save a lot more lives because I think that causes way more stress than like a, like a time change being, oh, I'm late for work. But it's still. A fairly la The Aristocratic Utensil: I I had a horrible Don joke now where that went because like, no, tell the joke. That's our audience Malcolm Collins: right here. The Aristocratic Utensil: That's like the difference between the male and female. My, my interaction was, my God, if daylight savings time causes you hot takes, maybe you're supposed to die calls the week. Yes. We can just call it Simone Collins: gentle purge day. Happy gentle purge day. Malcolm Collins: Oh Simone Collins: God. Oh [00:18:00] The Aristocratic Utensil: God. Well it not that your death coming. Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. We talk about this on this channel a lot as like the prenatal list people, people are like, oh, you must want these selfish dink couples having more kids. And I'm like, no. Like it is great that they're being removed from the gene pool. Nature is healing. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yeah, I kind of agree with that. I, I tend to have a more, higher genetic variation in the population, primarily because I've seen what bad genes do to people, and I've seen how people with shitty genes behave like this. Something that I like about the right wing is it is becoming much more aggressive with the physionomy checking. Simone Collins: Oh God, The Aristocratic Utensil: it's fantastic. Yeah, it's, it's great because I think, yeah, I think Simone Collins: aporia just released a, a long essay on like, is physio gonna be real like this? It's become so trend. What on earth is the The Aristocratic Utensil: obvious answer? Like this? There's certain people I can just look at and go like, you're just evil. I can just tell like my soul is looking like, oh no. So b****y resting face is Malcolm Collins: just, you're a b***h face. I. The Aristocratic Utensil: I can't really say much 'cause I myself look quite evil. [00:19:00] Oh no. Yes. I mean, you're Malcolm Collins: very clever in, in putting. Yeah, no, it's actually something that we noticed when we were in San Francisco last and we were looking at like old protest marches and stuff like that, and we're like, oh my God, these people actually, we see this. So there's like The Aristocratic Utensil: humans in the sixties, they Malcolm Collins: look Simone Collins: like mutants. They, they, the one at the, at the protests did not look like humans. And, and yeah, when you normally, when you look at pictures in the sixties, you're like, wow, this is before everyone got overweight. They, they look like the background from like Rocky Malcolm Collins: Horror Simone Collins: Picture Show. They look like that cast. Yeah, The Aristocratic Utensil: they do. Simone Collins: It was notable. Yeah. You can see this, if you go to the Harvey Milk terminal at SFO they're big, like wall sized pictures and it's just notable. Yeah, I The Aristocratic Utensil: have seen some pictures of like, the rainbow hippie matches and like. Okay. God, if you want to flood the world again with these people, I would not be opposed. Just give me a floating route. It'll be good. Simone Collins: Alternate theory. It could just be the intense amount of drugs they were all on. No, no, Malcolm Collins: no. Simone, that's true. Was it a discount bin? [00:20:00] Discount bin Love? No, wait. Where I really saw this loudly was we go to this conference where like the, I dunno if you've heard of like the effective altruist movement, but like our branch of it, the right wing branch of it ends up mixing with the other branch and the right wing branch. It's a group that I generally call like the bio bros and everything like that. And every single one of them looks like a fraternity guy. Like, that's, I don't know if you've seen like Johnny Anomaly or like, Matt Archer who runs seia or we saw REU in, in person from from X and he looks exactly like a character from like Animal House. Like, and it's, and and then the other side all actually looks like mutants. Simone Collins: Well, or as, as, the jelly heretic calls them spite. What? Spiteful mutants. The Aristocratic Utensil: Ah, yes. I should get an interview with him. Actually, he messaged me a while ago. Simone Collins: Oh yeah. If you want us to like warm intro you or something, just, just let us know. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yeah. Because I, I, I, I do find him interesting and I feel like he can draw out like my spiciest behavior and I can probably say some real s**t with him. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't want the topic to discuss with [00:21:00] him. Malcolm Collins: Come up with anything. He's more spicy than us, I'll tell you that. Like he is, The Aristocratic Utensil: yes, yes. I've, I, I've, I've I have some friends who've met him and he is like, he is really, really based, like I can deal with that. I can, I can say I have some horribly spicy opinions that I'm he is the dude, dude that Malcolm Collins: he's, I wanna say I'm, I'm and he was, was filming a documentary at our house and he actually offered, he's like, I'm gonna cut out some of what you guys said because it was too spicy. And I was like, what did I say that was so spicy? And then I realized what it was. I went on a rant against the German people and Oh, I'm glad they're going extinct. The Aristocratic Utensil: Ah, okay. Yeah, I, I would, I would take the opposite position. Probably 'cause I have some German a and I'm like, I do too. I do too. But I mean, Simone Collins: look at Germany right now. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yeah, I, I kind of want their, their current elite class and return to the Kaiser because that, that to me was just where it all went really, really wrong. Like even the Kaiser said application was not a good idea. It did not produce what I wanted. And that, that's, that's a whole thing I kind of want tell to people. Just be very careful [00:22:00] about who you wish to get rid of, because I can guarantee you the person that you wish to prop up is not the cure that you think it is. Yeah. Yeah. You just see the currentness is evil and everyone that you like is, is good, and everyone that you hate is bad. And that is very simplistic binary that is not historically speaking accurate by any means at all. Like take a look at what happened when you knocked off Gaddafi. Mm-hmm. Or Sadan Husain. Or literally anyone that America's intervened with in the last, oh, I don't know, about 125 years since the Monroe Doctrine. Yeah. So, yeah, maybe give that a second thought. Simone Collins: That was actually this really underrated element when, when I studied technology policy, the whole thing was basically about when and how you should intervene when there's a market failure, that the only purpose of the government is to step in and intervene when there's a market failure. And then there was this one, one day in one class in the entire course where they were like, well, and I guess we should sometimes question whether or not the government is actually capable of. Sufficiently resolving market [00:23:00] failures. Like can they actually fix it or do they make things worse when they intervene? This Malcolm Collins: Cambridge, by the way, for people who are wondering where she was studying this, Simone Collins: and they, they brought this just once and it was, it was never like, oh, well here's a statistical, a, a statistical analysis. Statistical analysis of every time there has been an intervention of this type and whether it has worked or not. There was, there was no like, okay, well let's try to figure out if it's on average worth it for the government to intervene. It was just, I mean, maybe, maybe it doesn't always work when the government intervenes, so maybe we should be asking that just one The Aristocratic Utensil: lone moment of dissent. Simone Collins: Yes. This like, this, like one little, like, maybe that's the question guys. Maybe we shouldn't be, how do you think The Aristocratic Utensil: the art, Simone Collins: why, why, why would intervene? We The Aristocratic Utensil: actually expanded the bureaucratic states and basically paved the way for the government America's suffering under now that has a load of gunk that needs to get rid of. Simone Collins: Okay. Here's my thing though about monarchies, right? There's a lot of monarchies out there right now of varying degrees of actual [00:24:00] monarchies and, and varying degrees of like shadow democracy taking place. Are there any countries or even experimental city states out there where you're like, that's a model that I like that, that it exists today? Or would you need to Or in history? Malcolm Collins: Or In history? Simone Collins: Okay. Yeah. First today, then history. See, The Aristocratic Utensil: this to me is, is always kind of an interesting question to ask because I feel like if you look at historically speaking at, at monarchies, it very much depends on how the people themselves want to be governed rather than the sort of individual kings of the time. Because you can always look at history and go see. When people look at historically, they sort of look at the modern perspective of. If this person was alive today with my politics, how would I rate their reign? Hmm. It's very difficult to sort of look at history and go, what does a king in this period of time is considered like a noble or good king? Because you can look at history and go, your [00:25:00] Richard, your lion arts, your, your king Alfred, your Catherine, the Greater Peter, the great of Prussia, and sort of say like, well, they expanded economic opportunities during this time, or your enlightened monarchs, or desperate, you know, and I, it's always, for me, the case of, if I was gonna look at a, a modern day sort of state, the main thing that everyone is concerned with in, in modernity is materialistic gain and really not much else. Uhhuh. Simone Collins: Yeah. And to what end. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yes, there you go. Is is to what end. And I, I've said to people, the biggest problem of, of modernity is not capitalism. It's consumerism. Yeah. That there's no problem with, with private property and, and free markets. That's all fine. The problem is that if you only live to consume, you're just a mammal. Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But how do you, how do you think about this? I mean, so you, to the point you're making is that you would judge the monarch by their ability to increase the material wealth of the [00:26:00] people. How does that affect your thoughts? Or do you think that that's a bad way to judge a, a good monarch? The Aristocratic Utensil: I, I, I would say like, if, if somebody were to ask me like, what would a monarch do in today's society, I feel like it would be very difficult to answer that question. When I look at the problems of our society today, like, like for, except the, the separation of church and state is in my head, is, is a better idea than what we have now. Because like you, you can say that. Well, if you look at you, you, you consider it. The acceleration of progressivism. If you were to wed it today based on what you see, which is maybe a good case to make, but then you might also make the case of, well, if we tried in a monarchy in today's society, might it be different because the structure's different. We don't know the experiment with that. So that's kind of the thing that I would say the main thing that I would like to see a monarch be able to do, or just any state in general, is just you need to find a way to actually flex power and also do it in a [00:27:00] non-Democratic way and just say, yeah, well I'm taking the reins and you can piss off. Simone Collins: Yeah. The Aristocratic Utensil: Well Simone Collins: that's always been such a delicate interplay, right? Because when you look at the most famous monarchs, half of their story. Is them trying to rest control from the nobility, which in turn is trying to undermine them at every turn and maybe subvert and take them over. You're right. They, they, they don't, yeah. That you can't think of a monarch out of context. They didn't fall out of a coconut tree. They exist in a context in which all in which they live and what came before them. The Aristocratic Utensil: There's a really great quote I wish I could find another, 'cause a friend of mine posts me this it was from a guy called et Ledine. Mm. A very long name. Name. He was an Austrian Noble. Yes. He was a, an Austrian nobleman of the, of the early 20th century. I think he was born the late 19 or late 18 hundreds. Incredibly bright individual. I think he could speak something like nine languages Simone Collins: of Well, classic European nonsense. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Classic of Austrian aristocracy. Mm-hmm. I think he could, he actually taught Ja Japanese in Japan, which [00:28:00] to me Yeah. Classic individual. Beautiful. Yes. And he and mentions Mobu. I think he was read him as well because, well, I know we'd read 'em because it was through unqualified reservations that I discovered the name reading. There you go. Works. Yeah. And he makes a case of in the old world, the function of the king was to unite with the peasantry against the aristocracy. Simone Collins: Ooh, that's good. Yeah. The Aristocratic Utensil: But here's, and I know Moog also made the point of the three Aristotelian forms of government is rule of the many rule of the few rule of one. Mm-hmm. And typically speaking the two outta three can, or two uniting can knock out the third. So in our timeline, it would be the people uniting behind the monarch to get rid of the aristocracy. Yeah. Which is basically what you have now is because I was watching M-S-N-B-C or CNN, why was I doing that? But there's, there was a guy on there who basically said that I. The bureaucracy exists to impede the executive. And in my head I went like, [00:29:00] you just gave the game away right there. You just, wow. Literal. You just said the bureaucracy exists to impede the monarch. That's what you just said. Yeah. And at no point do these people ever discuss, I call it the procedure. And what I notice on television, all I see is them discussing what should the state be allowed to do? Not what is good policy, not is what is good statecraft. I just say, yeah, this person is doing something that is illegal. I'm like, the reason why politics bores the s**t out of me nowadays is 'cause everyone television just discussed this. Hmm. And nothing else. It's the reason why everyone is so dull and boring. 'cause they don't know what good statesmanship looks like. 'cause it isn't discussed anywhere. All they discuss is the legalese. But if you want to discuss what's good statecraft, you have to go back to previous century 'cause we don't see it. In our timeline. Malcolm Collins: So the, the by the way, when he, when he talked about bu he's talking about Curtis Jarvin, who's been on the show before. Friend. Yeah. Good, great guy. We, we should have him back on. I sent you an email telling you to ask him back on Simone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I, I wanted to ask how you prevent, like, this is my [00:30:00] fear around monarchies and why I've generally been more antagonistic to them is you end up like what you had with the Roman Empire where you can get like truly atrocious monarchs that are purely self-interested. When you look at like, even I'd say average monarchs of the Imperial period of the Roman Empire, what are your thoughts on how you deal with that? The Aristocratic Utensil: I don't actually think you can. I think that's just a function of history. Hmm. And you just have to weather the storm because like, this is someone, this is the common question that you always get asked is what do you do when the corruption gets too hot? And in our timeline, I. The corruption is not touched through the democratic process. It just grows indefinitely behind the scenes. You're just changing the management, but you're not changing any of the people that pull the strings. So you make a surface change, but nothing actually changes. And so you get to the point where you just invest a whole lot of money and time into this thing that inevitably steals and grows from me to the point where we [00:31:00] don't know how this ends in our timeline because we're not there yet. Mm-hmm. And I fear the collapse comes. It's gonna be really, really bloody and gory. And I eventually, the imagine bloodshed will arise at some point in our lifetime. I don't wanna go that way. Interesting. But I, I think that is inevitability. 'cause I don't see the permanent bureaucratic class in our timeline willingly give our power. Malcolm Collins: Yeah, but I don't see them. So I'm like, my take on this is and this is where I push back and stuff like, well, I mean, there could be a rebellion. And I've talked to Simone about this where I'm like, she's like, could there really be a rebellion? And we, and I'm like, well, all you need for a real rebellion to happen in this country is for one party to deny the election results of the other party. She's said, Simone Collins: no, no, no, no. I disagree. June's point starving people. Yeah. People have to like literally starving people doesn't Malcolm Collins: create rebellion. Venezuelas have starving people for a long time and they didn't get a rebellion Simone Collins: things. It is not on the ground. I think they, no, I think, I think they're fed. They may not have electricity for days. Malcolm Collins: But they're fact, if [00:32:00] you look at the British Empire, it was the wealthiest part that rebelled first. The Aristocratic Utensil: Ah, yes. Juche has made that point that the Aris, the aristocracy is always anarchists. Simone Collins: They are the, they, they do seem to be the most dangerous ones, to be fair. Yes. He said The Aristocratic Utensil: because the, the anarchists, the, the aristocratic class, they have no interest in good government because they can always leave. They have money. It's the poorest people that have the most interest in good government because they don't have any other option. Mm-hmm. Which is probably why poor people like a strong executive. Malcolm Collins: Yes. Oh, that's a, a really strong tie together here. Okay. Well here's question interesting I have for you. How do you pull all this together? So like when you look at like crashing fertility rates and what that's gonna do to like the global economic and tax system, sort of, how do you see, what's your past to chart forward into the future? What's your hypothesis for your family, for example? The Aristocratic Utensil: Oh, good god. So how would I institute, like basically how would you make traditional values Cool. Mm-hmm. I would say, do you know what I think is honestly missing [00:33:00] from not just the, the right wing? Okay. I'll use an example. And I'm gonna piss off a whole bunch of people saying this 'cause this is sort of where I deviate and annoy a lot of people is, is take for example, Andrew Tate. Okay. Now, Andrew Tate is a contentious figure because of what he's done outside of it. Now my issue with him is I can listen to him and find him an interesting figure despite what he's done. Because the way that I look at him is can he say something interesting and thought provoking? And the answer is yes. Malcolm Collins: Yeah. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yes. And I can look at somebody and ignore the bad things because I'm only looking for the good things. Like I can separate the art from the artists and this kind of thing. Mm-hmm. And what I, what I f*****g detest about so many people who claim to be right wing is they look at people like that and they see a face, and all they see is the villainous actions. Hmm. And the, the thing that I want to tell these people, do you understand that there's people like me who don't care for the bad things because they're looking at him as a positive role model? Mm-hmm. When all you see [00:34:00] is the bad. You can't go to somebody else who sees the good and go stop listening to these people because you are looking at the bad and you are trying to impose the bad on them and ignore the good that he is done. Mm-hmm. All you see is the face of evil because that's your morality. And you can't just impose that on somebody and shred the good that he is done because they're looking at going, why are you imposing your evilness on me? I've like, this person did something good for me, and you are chastising him and making me feel like an a*****e for it. That doesn't work. So what you need to do is you need to prop up, Andrew Wilson said this, it's not enough to destroy somebody's worldview. You have to replace it with something. Yes, absolutely. Right wing. The right wing does not have an answer to Andrew Tate's popularity because Andrew Tate is a popular person for the material world. Mm-hmm. And you, and if you are trying to impose traditional values, you don't have, you are trying to use a currency that is not currently in circulation. Simone Collins: But we have to get people off that currency. It's such a toxic currency. Yes. And the right wing The Aristocratic Utensil: [00:35:00] doesn't know how. Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Malcolm Collins: I, The Aristocratic Utensil: that is the, that's the biggest problem. Malcolm Collins: I think you point to something really important here that I've seen really positive moves on, which is the idea of cancellation prevents, like the sort of intellectual diversity you see with someone like Andrew Tate and JD Vance has been the biggest hero on this with big balls saying stuff, you know, racist against Indians, like within a year. Right. And, and consider, even though JD Vance is married to an Indian and has Indian kids and JD Vance was like, f**k off, like, rehired this guy. Like, why, why did you let him quit? Just because it came out that he was a racist. And I think that, like, I remember that. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yeah, that was based. Malcolm Collins: That was so base we need, like, as this continues, and I saw that as like a a, we had one of our fans reach out to us recently and they're like, actually, like I had been, like, had trouble getting jobs in the corporate world for a long time. And me and my partner applied to jobs and like, we were hired this year and like, we were shocked and like, the, the partner's working at like a university now. And he's like, like [00:36:00] vulnerable young minds are seeing his potentially conservative worldview. And I think that, that we're beginning to see a sea change on this, but we have to be really fastidious around, like personally not allowing like, cancellations to prevent us from you know, having people on and stuff like that. The Aristocratic Utensil: I'm, I'm not kinda surprised by his, his choice of, of ladies. Because one thing that you kind of joke about, all white supremacists don't ask them the race of their girlfriends. Yeah, yeah. Which is good because, and people have asked me like, why is that a thing? I said, well, it's very simple because if you are the, if you're the colonial empire, you colonize, oh Lord. Then they're women. Malcolm Collins: No, hold on. This is a problem for black supremacists as well. Go to the far left, like, look at any far lefty, like racist. The politician, like a OC or something like that. But they The Aristocratic Utensil: all have white men. Malcolm Collins: Yeah, yeah. Well, usually Jewish white men too. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yes. But like, that's what the power is and women are attracted to power. Like, that's just like the, the one thing that annoys the crap about Moderna is there's so many things that is natural that we just [00:37:00] ignore. Hmm. Like, yes, there's, there's those that will go with the Aryan Princess and reproduce their children and then those are like, your genes are s**t you must make with better genes. That's how they're wired. People think that's like a controversial thing to say, but that is how they actually look at the world. Yeah. Whether you like it or not, you can say it's memetic. 'cause it's, it is funny. But that is how they see things. ' Malcolm Collins: cause we've, we've, we've created f*****g insane ideas of what a racist is. People will be like, if you recognize that there may be any sort of a difference between populations that have been genetically separated for potentially thousands of years, that makes you a racist. And therefore, a lot of people who are quote unquote, like Johnny Anomaly, who we really like, you know, he's married to like a South American woman or, or you know, JD Vance is married to an India. These people don't have f*****g problems with different races. Like, that's not the thing they're The Aristocratic Utensil: reading with them. That's, that's kind of a good indication than not. Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I love, there was the one thing where, where the, the left got mad at this guy who had like black kids and like called him racist and he's like, what are you [00:38:00] talking about? The Aristocratic Utensil: Yeah. That's happened Simone Collins: quite a few times. That is a, a very common, The Aristocratic Utensil: I will say, I can kill the accusation of racism in like a civilizational state in two paragraphs and just would like two questions. The one that I always like to go to is how is segregation and nation state borders not the same thing, if not scale, Malcolm Collins: segregation and nation state borders. Yeah, I, I guess I don't understand what, what do you mean by this? Like, yeah, explain this in more detail. I don't get it. The Aristocratic Utensil: Well, let's see. If you're segregating, you are suggesting that only a certain amount of people should enter a given territory. Yeah. A nation state is exactly the same thing. It's just the, the legal bounds to enter is different. Simone Collins: Oh, I see. Oh. But I don't know, like I, I always thought segregation was about only allowing a certain criteria, people certain criteria in an area. Yes, The Aristocratic Utensil: yes. Yeah. But exactly. It's the use of force. Malcolm Collins: Like you are born with your national identity because of where you happen to be born. It's complete chance, Simone. Yeah. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yes. Malcolm Collins: And it's complete chance. [00:39:00] But you what like ethnic group you're born into. Okay. That's okay. Okay, that makes sense. The Aristocratic Utensil: But you are still prohibiting the entry into a certain territory through the use of force. Yeah. Okay. Which is what you do in segregation as well. Mm-hmm. And as far as that is concerned, I would just say to say that to anybody. 'cause I know I've noticed leftism loves blood and soil when it's native population, except when it's Europeans, then everyone else must be allowed to enter European territories. It's funny how that one works. Yeah. Malcolm Collins: There's no indigenous people's Simone Collins: day Malcolm Collins: in Simone Collins: the United Malcolm Collins: Kingdom. No, no, no, no. Hold on, hold on. It's Europeans. Or where they really hate it if it's blood and soil. Jews. I'm like, yeah. One population in this world where they were displaced by an imperial group, they then took back their native land and are fighting to defend it and you guys want them erased. The Aristocratic Utensil: But I, I would say. Say that I conquered a territory, like any tribe or whatever, and somebody comes to me not of that tribe and says, give me access to your land, your people, your capital and its markets, or [00:40:00] else I will call you, insert label X. Hmm. Yeah. Why should I listen to that person and capitulate to their demands and grant them everything? Malcolm Collins: That's a a great point. Yeah, no, because it is a lot of a capitulation. And I think that the way this works within leftism is the intuitive belief in the superiority of their culture. By this, what I mean is leftists believe. They're like, oh, yes, well, like these Muslims may come to our country today and say that they want, you know, gay people should be illegal and everything like that, but eventually our cultural values will erase their own. And what we have seen is this belief in their superiority is as delusional as anything The Aristocratic Utensil: else they believe, Malcolm Collins: anything else they believe, but also, you know, a lot of the historic racists. You know, it's, it, one of those things I always joke is, is, is, you know. You'll see in, in certain populations where they'll be like, oh this is where you get like [00:41:00] delusional racism when you start claiming like every historical figure was actually part of your ethnic group. Like Oh yeah, the, the, the Greeks were actually Northern Europeans. Yeah. I The Aristocratic Utensil: I do like that. It always makes me laugh because they also claim our history is evil. But you also, no evil Malcolm Collins: was of white people. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yes. And it's like, ah, I so wanna make fun of you all damn day long, because there's just no consistency at all. It's good stuff. Malcolm Collins: All right. All right. It's wonderful. Well, I've had oh yeah. Any pass through this? Any path through this that you see for yourself? You mentioned elevating people like Tate, but like how do you, how do you make this, this cool Erta Farms? Is that it? The Aristocratic Utensil: Oh, dear God, no. I would say it's one thing I don't like about like the Christian worldview is it's very, the, specifically the Protestant wing is, it's very focused on forgiveness. 'cause that whole like equality doctrine is very based on a sort of perverted Christian [00:42:00] perception of almost like the white man's burden in a sense. And I, that just ignores all of reality. I've heard a lot of people just say, oh, look like it's our job to like civilize the world. I'm like, okay, well, you do realize that. Okay, that's kind of imperial, which is kind of based, I'm not gonna lie, but yeah, you, you also, you also want to tell people they should behave like you, but you don't have any reason other than you are telling them this is how they should behave. And that's not how human beings work. People don't like it when other people tell 'em how to behave with no reason other than I told you so. Malcolm Collins: Yeah, when there's no hold on, they give them lots of money. Look at usaid, that's what it was all about. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yeah. And considering USAID was given to my country and it hasn't made a dent in making people say, and I'm not really a believer in that money theory Simone Collins: exactly though. Exactly. Yeah. So, The Aristocratic Utensil: Yeah, it tends to, what was it someone said recently? International aid is taking money from poor people in rich countries and giving it to rich people in poor, or giving it to rich people in poor countries. That is so, so freaking accurate. Oh my [00:43:00] gosh. Oh yeah. I act, I actually had a conversation with with a girl earlier today, and she seemed to be more lefty leaning. I found her like in a very right wing, like you are an unusual person in a very right wing place. I, I, she, she's not stupid, definitely not, but she's, she hasn't really examined her perceptions of the world. She was very adamant and research into how she sees the world. But I tried to tell her, this is a nice ideal, but you have to look at the world for what it is, not how you wish it to be, especially when it comes to people. And that is something that I've noticed. A lot of, particularly American right wingers clinging to with like immense f especially when it comes to the Constitution. And there's a really good clip by do you know Judge Politano? Simone Collins: The name's familiar, what we know. We, you The Aristocratic Utensil: guys should check him out. So he had on Lionel Mason both sort of, you know, legal experts and he, Lionel asked them, is the, the US Constitution still valid? And he gives a very interesting answer. He says, it depends on how you look at it formally and [00:44:00] functionally. Simone Collins: Oh my gosh. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yeah. He says formally it still establishes, you know, a three branch of government that is the law of the land. You know, three branches of government, the separation of powers, yada yada. But he says, functionally it has been an abysmal, abysmal failure. It has failed to retrain powers. It has failed to balance. Like the checks and balances don't work. Congress just passes whatever the hell they want. They tax something. And he said the best way to sort of rewrite the ship is to appoint governments or appoint judges that will chain the government down. Mm-hmm. And at the end, Lionel says, so the, the problem is isn't the constitution, the Constitution still works it, the problem is it isn't being followed. And I thought. It is kind of weird to me that you suggest the way to fix this is to apply the Constitution, but also people don't listen to it. Like that makes no sense to me. Malcolm Collins: People aren't listening to it now. Why would they listen to it then? The Aristocratic Utensil: Right? Yeah. So I just like, okay, so you are admitting the document has failed because Michael Malice had a good quote. He [00:45:00] said if you think anyone in government now is gonna listen to the whims of dead men from two 50 years ago, that is more utopian than communism. Like, damn malice has a way of just like cutting through the grain and just like hurting your soul. Like that's good. That's good. That is very accurate. And I've noticed some of the Americans that I've spoken to that I can sort of break free from this sort of spell of constitutionalism is my God, they, they start hating their own countrymen. 'cause they, once they realize that, oh. Oh, I can't unsee this. And they come to me and go, I can't speak to anybody else about this because they all look at me like I'm insane. Hmm. Like, yeah. If you can tell me how you fixed that, please tell me. 'cause I don't know how to, I don't know how to answer that question. 'cause I also look at these people and go, I'm gonna get hated for exposing the truth. And then like the, the few that agree with me go like, yeah, welcome to the club. Thanks for ruining us. Like, I'm sorry about that. Not much I can do about that. Simone Collins: Well, yeah. The Aristocratic Utensil: Not a nice perspective to tell people horrible truths about reality as of people, especially when [00:46:00] it's growing novel. I don't know, like Simone Collins: I think if you told that to young people who were just learning about the formation of. The United States. Yeah. They'd be like, oh yeah, this was, it was always, yeah, early draft mode. This was not, do you The Aristocratic Utensil: know, do you know what's really interesting about that? Now you mentioned that because Aiden is also American, she's a monarchist, and we were looking at perceptions of monarchy mm-hmm. Across the demographics. And it's really weird when you look at them across the United States and the uk Oh. In the, in the uk the younger people hate the monarchy, but the older people have reverence for it, which is understandable. I mean, they grew up in the Elizabethan era, so that's, yeah. Yeah. Whereas in the US up to like 25% of Gen Z favor monarchy. Simone Collins: That makes sense. Really. Yeah. That makes sense. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yes. Like the, there's like, and it's the reverse for the older age, obviously. Yeah. It's like the older people like uphold monarchy because, well, you know, they're older, they're boomers. Whereas the younger generation sort of look at the con, I think it's because they just look at like their chances of actually getting, I. Like a house is basically impossible for them. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So they look [00:47:00] well smaller government. I I, I see to the people like this, this is the pitch I always tell Americans to with, and they always think like, huh? I say to them, think of Trump. If you gave Trump complete control of the government, okay, but say 90% of government is removed, how much damage could he actually do? Right. When most of the bureaucracy is gone and there's no taxes to pay for this s**t. Yeah. And they go, huh, I get to pay significantly less tax and I can see the one person doing everything. They're like, that doesn't sound so bad. Like, yeah, I can maybe get on board with that. 'cause the moment you appeal to their pocketbook and like this one person, but they can't do much 'cause the bureaucracy is gone. Yeah. Suddenly they look at it like, oh, now my materialism is, I pay less tax. Simone Collins: Well, it's kind of been like this since the beginning too. I mean, even after we voted in our first president, there was this huge struggle to. You know, n not have him, Malcolm Collins: you know, it's your ancestors, your, your yeah. They're like, come on man. Simone Collins: Just, just just be the king. Can you just Malcolm Collins: talk of, of The Aristocratic Utensil: George? I've heard some [00:48:00] people just say that. You're like, oh, just Washington. Why didn't you just take the crown and we can be done with this? They were Malcolm Collins: so ready for it. They were like, okay. Simon, by the way, you are the descendant of one of George Washington's siblings, and he had no kid. Yeah. He's a Simone Collins: great, great, great, great. So you would be Malcolm Collins: of the monarchy family right now if it existed? Oh, Simone Collins: yes. I would be in American. I wouldn't dy Yes or Duchess or something. I Malcolm Collins: would've married into a monarchy. Oh, see? Yeah. Oh, well, what a, what a jack as he was for not accepting it. Yeah. The Aristocratic Utensil: It is really curious to me that there was 12 years when they had the article of Confederation and that's been totally airbrushed out of history. Malcolm Collins: Right. The Aristocratic Utensil: And nobody knows much about America's first government. Like if you ask Americans, who was the first king? They'd all say, oh, George Washington. Like, no, that wasn't the first king or the first the first president. Yeah. It was oh, I can't remember his name now. It was, I think it was Simone Collins: Don't, yeah, The Aristocratic Utensil: it was, it was, Simone Collins: that's because it's airbrushed out of history. You've literally been brainwashed to not know this. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yeah. Simone Collins: And it's John Han, The Aristocratic Utensil: I think was the president of the Congress. [00:49:00] Simone Collins: Yeah. The Aristocratic Utensil: I think he was the first one that was appointed. And I think there was problem with, with with currency regulation was like one of the biggest ones about they just realized that, okay, this, this doesn't actually work. There's too many com com competitions. Yeah. Around And you need the central figure. Central, yeah. Remember them saying like, yeah. Like, oh, but if we give birth to an executive, this is gonna be like the fertile grounds of monarchy. Like, oh yeah. If only we can hope. Because you need the central, you need the sovereign. Yeah. You need the one person when everyone is fighting. I remember I, I spoke to this one girl and she's like very quite lefty leaning and she was in favor of co-ops. And one day she came to me and she said, I'm kind of reconsidering your position. And I said, why is that? And she said to me, well, we have a bunch of people, but they're all fighting. Like, we just need one person to tell everyone to shut up and what to do. Like Yeah. I wonder why that is. Simone Collins: Yeah. Daddy needs to stand up and just be like, shut up. We're doing this now. Like The Aristocratic Utensil: the amount of people who look at Trump as like a father figure when they're [00:50:00] just like. The meme was like, oh, look, daddy's home. Yes. And now you all have to behave. I'm like, you realize all of you look at Trump like he is a monarchical figure. You look at him like, like the great man. Mm-hmm. Malcolm Collins: And it's very different than the way Milo used to call him Daddy. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yes. But it's, it is curious to me that if you ask most Americans, who's your local representative, they have no idea. Yeah. But if you ask him who's in the White House, everyone knows, because the perception even with Americans is that that guy is actually in charge and he's the one that can like, do anything through executive orders. Mm-hmm. And there's service. He can, but the, the problem with that is, is that Congress is like, Congress is a long-term fix for short-term problems. And executive orders is supposed to be a long-term fix for like really short-term gain. Yeah. Yeah. And that's. You need to, that needs to be in reverse, but to get people in Congress to do things in the long term, especially when they're there for impossible. Yes. Yeah. Because they're not [00:51:00] interested in governing the nation through long terms, because there's no benefit to them when they leave office. Mm-hmm. Like they're there for short term stents to basically loot the place and then get the hell out. Exactly. Other people, you have to think of voting as garbage collection day, as in while they're in office, they can pile on as much corruption as humanly possible. And that little speech of like, oh look, we can just shorthand. And the, the garbage goes out, disappears, supposedly, but it goes into a landfill and then just the whole process starts all over again. And this, this, this, this little button, reset button that basically stops you from killing politicians because there's no physical repercussions. Like you don't hold the politicians to account ever. And that's how the bureaucracy goes. And like, do you realize. Voting benefits the elites more than it benefits you. You get the veneer of being in control while somebody else props him on the ballot and which is what they're beholden to. And you don't actually, your process is just like yay or nay. And that's really it. Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, and I mean, not, not to mention even that in the United States, it was never supposed to be direct as it is now. But this [00:52:00] thing was a huge mistake. And your The Aristocratic Utensil: accounting fathers were violently opposed to democracy for of these reasons. Simone Collins: Yes, they were. They were, yeah. For very good reasons. I mean, first they were like, Hamilton The Aristocratic Utensil: is like crazy when it comes to democracy. Like, gee, Hamilton. Simone Collins: Yeah, no, it's The Aristocratic Utensil: we like him. He's a, he's, I remember Moberg said like he was America's first monarch. 'cause he's the one who really run the treasury and ran it like a proper executive. Like Washington is the face, but like the brains of the operations, like Hamilton is really running the show. Malcolm Collins: Oh, interesting. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yeah. But Malcolm Collins: the original Elon the original, The Aristocratic Utensil: yeah, yeah. Sort of in a sense. And, and, but you know, all of these people have kind of shady, honest backgrounds, especially like. Especially when it comes to sex, like my god, like blackmail in the government. I imagine. I think it was someone had said like the way that China's bureaucracy gets any rank is they need to do some shady s**t to like advance, which is why they're all like sleeve. Oh, so they Simone Collins: they have dirt on each other. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yeah. So basically the reason why it's all like militant organized is because they can't step outta balance 'cause they know they'll get screwed if they try. I Malcolm Collins: love that on this [00:53:00] where we explore how you know, PDF files ever became, like, this is one of the crazy things when we talk about like conspiracies in the US there was a conspiracy that there was a. Cabal of PDA files who controlled reigns of power within our country or had a great deal of power within our country. And then we found out that was real with Epstein, and now everyone is like, well, we got rid of Epstein, so it must be gone now. Like that's a done thing. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yeah, that's the, that's sort of like, oh look, we can just depose the head of the mob. And like, no, he's got like capos and a whole bunch of henchmen underneath him. Like the way to topple the hierarchy is to start from the freaking bottom until he is alone. It's, it's not by just capping off the head of the hydra. 'cause then the hydra grows another head. Mm-hmm. So what someone on my podcast suggested something interesting, they said that the reason they're not releasing the Epstein files is because the people in government Trump can use them to leverage them and get what he wants. Malcolm Collins: Oh, that's a fun take. I, I don't think Trump's doing that. I just Simone Collins: figured it was because I wish he The Aristocratic Utensil: was based enough to actually do that, but I don't think [00:54:00] it's within him to be that kind of cutthroat as much. Honestly, he's a nice Simone Collins: person. Like he, he doesn't, he, he wants to. He doesn't want people to hurt or suffer. He, that's, The Aristocratic Utensil: that's one thing that's his kind of detriment is that I think Trump is actually too nice. Too, Simone Collins: too pathetic. I don't think The Aristocratic Utensil: he is this like ruthless cut road a*****e that everyone thinks like I've, something I thought was very interesting is I've seen like the left try to mean Trump and they always make him sound way more dangerously based than he actually is. I'm like, can you just give me the Trump that the leftist think he is? It would be fantastic. Malcolm Collins: He needs to be more. The Aristocratic Utensil: I said to a friend of mine, there is a, there is a reason why they're like that. Why they look at him as this great evil. It's because it triggers the response mechanism. If he is not this horrible, evil person, then it induces complacency. Hmm. They need to him to be this radical figure because if they realize, oh my God, he's not actually gonna like take away my right to, you know, kill my own child in this kind of crazy s**t. He's just like a regular, like [00:55:00] 1990s American democratic dude. Mm-hmm. Because if they realize that then they might not radicalize and they might actually become right wing and therefore that would thin their ranks. So there's, there's functionality in there. Absurdity. Simone Collins: 100%. Malcolm Collins: Alright. Alright, well we can't have the episode go on forever, so we gotta stop. We'll let you go. Simone Collins: Also, it's so late. So thank you so much for coming on. We really appreciate. It's actually only The Aristocratic Utensil: seven 30 here. Simone Collins: That's, you don't understand. That's like when we're asleep. The Aristocratic Utensil: Oh, do you, are you like really early bird rises? Simone Collins: Yeah, we are. I try to wake Malcolm Collins: up at around two every day. Yeah. So we're, Jesus, The Aristocratic Utensil: how do you give respect? How do you function? Malcolm Collins: Wait, are you in the UK right now? No. Yes. Oh, you are in the uk? The Aristocratic Utensil: Yes. Yes. I mean, yeah, I'm in green. I Malcolm Collins: am. I, I am. Are you thinking about a movie like most of the people I know in the UK are looking at getting out at this point? The Aristocratic Utensil: Well, my family wants to go back to South Africa and that's probably not Malcolm Collins: fun. The Aristocratic Utensil: No. Well, they said to me like, do you wanna go home? And I looked at 'em [00:56:00] like, well, I don't have any other family here. Mm. And if I go back home, they said to me, well, you can stay like here close to us. 'cause basically my my aunt and uncle are rather well off and they have like a guest house and they said, well you can stay there. And I saw the guest house because I hadn't, it's kind of weird the last time they showed it, it was like 2010 Google and there wasn't completed yet. Still in process mode. And I saw it recently 'cause it got updated when like, that's where you want me to stay. And it's like a stone story from a beach. Oh. In probably a like more safer area when like, I don't actually oppose this. Malcolm Collins: Look, you, you stack of generators in the UK right now. Like one of the lotus eaters. Right? They got pulled over by like the passport control or something, right? The Aristocratic Utensil: Yeah. Callum did for terrorist activities, which was like, oh, Simone Collins: good heavens. Yeah. Really? Were you by? The Aristocratic Utensil: Not as far as I'm aware. No. Malcolm Collins: Okay. There's a recent conference they had there that a lot of the little see guys rip. But anyway. Yeah. So they I was so afraid of [00:57:00] being like, passport pulled over. Like, I'm like, the UK is getting scary, man. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yeah. I would rather be in South Africa than the uk That's Malcolm Collins: saving a lot. That's, that's dire. Yes. Okay. I, I don't know if you heard, but Trump's administration is like letting people in for visas from South Africa as like a discriminated group. Yeah. I, The Aristocratic Utensil: I will, I will say, because I, I sort of see a lot of crazy s**t in South Africa from like my Twitter feed, and a lot of it involves Julius Moer and to the people who have this perspective. Can I just say this, Julius Moer in South Africa's politics is like a OC to you. Simone Collins: Oh. The Aristocratic Utensil: He has no institutional power. Simone Collins: Okay. And he The Aristocratic Utensil: never will. He's, he's the crazy person that says insane s**t to be relevant. That's, well, to be fair, like our Simone Collins: only experience of South Africa was like just going through the townships outside of Johannesburg. So we, we probably don't have Oh, okay, The Aristocratic Utensil: okay. Yeah. So you saw like the roughest of it. Yeah, yeah. Like whereas Western Cape is where like, no, f**k up my s**t. Let's, let's go. Yeah. Yeah. There's a thing of like basically [00:58:00] the white of the area, the safer it is, which is reality. Yeah. No, no, no. Simone Collins: Like the, what we use to de what, when we try to explain to people how demographic collapse is going to play out, we're like, just look at South Africa. Like, Malcolm Collins: yes, Simone Collins: there, there, there're going to be walled gardens that are incredibly nice and that's where all the wealthy people with resources are gonna go. And then there's gonna be the townships, and that's where everyone who is not wealthy and resource is gonna be, you're gonna have brownout, you're gonna have blackouts, you're gonna have crime, you're gonna have rapes. And that's what it's gonna be. The Aristocratic Utensil: I, I will say it's, it's, it's so that is kinda a weird place because we essentially have three capital cities. Hmm. Which is quite strange that like, I have a, as far as I'm aware, like keep in mind I left South Africa as a child when I was about, just on the verge of 11 years old. Oh, okay. So like my, if, if I were to go home now and describe politics, like it's very difficult for me. And we also have a rule, don't discuss politics with people who are not South African Fair because they don't understand the reality of demographics. And like, like everything is like, what, [00:59:00] what do you think of like an actual South African thing? It's like, yeah. All of that. And way more based than any Americans can possibly. Malcolm Collins: That's what we gathered when we were there. We're like, okay, yeah. I think one of the things in South Africa is that a lot of people are like, oh, it's like white people versus black people. And it's like, that's not really the way South Africa is tribe. It's, it's corruptly. Everyone else, each other, and the tribes will f**k each other even before they care about if you get one, one tribe elected to power, it's like, okay, let's loot from all the other tribes. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yeah. That's, that's, it's like how any civilization works. Yeah. South Africa is not unique. It's just unique in our timeline. But if you look at it from like a historical perspective, like if I tell people this if you look at how South Africa's demographics came about, the South Africans, the Africans who are nature of that land, they've been there since 1652. It predates the American state. Simone Collins: Wow. Okay. They've been there for, I didn't realize it was 16 hundreds. That is. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yes. It's really, really old. Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx): To put that in context, you know how now we're all, oh my gosh, I can't believe the Jews would [01:00:00] displace the historic Muslims who lived in Israel. Well, Israel only became, or the place we call Israel today, Muslim majority in the 12th century, so not that much earlier than this group moved to Africa. Malcolm Collins: We do have to, this is, oh my gosh, so long at this point. So, but I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's fun. It's so fun talking with you. Spoon. Thank you so much for going on. Great. Having you on. The Aristocratic Utensil: How did you guys actually, how did you guys actually discover my channel? Malcolm Collins: I watched Aiden's channel first. I, I then watched some of your content with her. I then watch some of your content. The Aristocratic Utensil: Oh, okay. Simone Collins: I'm gonna say algo for me. The Aristocratic Utensil: I, oh my goodness. Yeah. YouTube is actually quite nice to me, which is bizarre. 'cause I've been told, like you say, a lot of spicy things, but YouTube tends to recommend me for some. I think it, it Simone Collins: just, it just assumes, you know, it, here's your, you know, it must, it must process your accent and be like, oh yes. I just noticed, have you Malcolm Collins: noticed that YouTube has started suppressing? I we recently did an and an episode and there were two lowest episodes. And I think YouTube is suppressing both topics. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yeah. What's going on? You might want to rephrase it. Malcolm Collins: Yeah. [01:01:00] Okay. I won't say anti, I'd say an issue related to the gender people. Gender people you know, The Aristocratic Utensil: contemplating the rainbow hippies. Malcolm Collins: Yes. The rainbow hippies. Yeah. No, actually I, I have a question for you because this, it is pretty interesting. When I look at you, you are really much in like the social circle of, I think like the old YouTube conservative group. Or, or like, like questioning woke group. Do you know when we talk about things like Aporia or Johnny Anomaly or Ew, do you know who any of these people are? The Aristocratic Utensil: Yeah. Some of the names do do surface. Okay. Simone Collins: Okay. So Malcolm Collins: you Simone Collins: do know a job? Yeah. Okay. You're, you're on, you're on X way more than we are, I think. So that yeah, The Aristocratic Utensil: I, I mainly, I mainly use X to s**t post. I've, I've, I've had some people like. Come to me especially women, and say to me like, you're very aggressive with how you are with women. And my immediate response is, have you seen my content? Like, yes. I, I am very much against like any people voting and I don't think women should have a say in polls. I'm very [01:02:00] vocal about that. I will openly say that I don't care who gets offended. The thing of it is that I find very fascinating about that is the women who are traditional are more traditional than the men. Oh yeah. Why that is Malcolm Collins: so people don't dunno this, but during suffrage in the United States, the primary anti suffrage group was the women. Women, yeah. Dude. Yeah. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yeah. And I, I said to them as well, like, if you look at my audience and my timeline, I always tell people what irks me. It's not just like, I hate women today, and then just like ramble, like, no, no, no. I will give you an example of this thing that is currently pissing me off. And when it comes to like, women, it was probably a woman who DMed me in the first place, right? Because they come to me and go, spoon, look at the stupid s**t that my sex is doing. Yell at them. I basically, yeah, they, they're the, they're the police. Malcolm Collins: They're the, the secret. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Aristocratic Utensil: Because I, I tell guy, I tell guys this, like, be the guy that can openly talk about women in like in a bashfully, well, in modern day sexist kind of ways, because [01:03:00] women cannot talk about other women to women because it just escalates into a fight. I. Yeah. So they will go to a guy and say, this is the stupid s**t my sex is doing. I know this annoys you as well. It's one of the, one of the few times, 'cause I know women has this tendency of don't actually solve my problem, just listen. Malcolm Collins: Oh, no, no. Yeah. No. But there's a bigger problem of like, the guys who are feminists are always the worst guys to women. Yeah. It's also true recently, you know, like yusof that put out like the, you know, this one where they, they have the Johnny Somalia simulator. Where you go around as a black guy and kill random Japanese. Great phrase by the way. You know, great. I heard that I was, as soon as I heard Johnny Somali simulator, I was like, yeah, yeah. I was like, that's The Aristocratic Utensil: brilliant actually. Malcolm Collins: That's what this game is. But anyway, so they're now in a lawsuit in France. And the things that their executives were doing to employees are horrifying. One of them yeah, I wouldn't be surprised of, would play porn so loud. Everyone in the office could hear it. And he made a woman do a handstand so he could see her skirt in front of the entire office. And then at [01:04:00] another time you had other employees holding down, very progressive woman so he could kiss her at a party. Like when somebody's doing feminist s**t, this is the s**t they're doing behind closed doors. Simone Collins: That sounds about right. Yeah. Well, Malcolm, you found the solution. You, you, you didn't marry a woman, you married an artist and that is the only safe way you hold it, but Yeah. The Aristocratic Utensil: But the, the, the point that I was trying to make is that this is one of the few times where you can actually listen to a woman explain her problems because the issue that is, is not one that can be solved. The issue is just like her own annoyance that her own sex. Hmm. Yeah. So that's one of the things that you can listen to and like sympathize with, because I can guarantee you what annoys her also annoys you and you'll become friends. Because the one thing is mutual hatred. Simone Collins: Yeah. And there, and there's nothing, nothing that can be done about it. So Yes. That's, there's no solution that you're like dying to present. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yes. But they just want you to say can, like, can this. That must be so Simone Collins: frustrating. I'm so sorry. Yes. Tell me more. I have How did that make you feel? The Aristocratic Utensil: Yeah. Yes, I have, I have one female friend when she streams with other streamers, like when they're women, she just like messaged me like, oh my God, these women are annoying. The crap [01:05:00] outta me. And then she comes to things with me. Partner Malcolm Collins: streaming is a woman, right? Yes, The Aristocratic Utensil: I know. And I also have a, another girl that I stream with on Rumble vex Electronica. It's a bit of a different stream with Aiden. 'cause Aiden is very prim and proper and she like organizes everything ruthlessly. And Vex just messaged me and goes, I'm annoyed. Let's stream. And then we just make five hours disappear with no prep at all. Yeah. So it's just like a rambling And we, yes. Yeah. 'cause we get to say game of words and just like, this is the dumb s**t that is currently wrong with the world, especially culturally. Mm. Because we are there's a lot of sort of like cultural anti woke people that we don't like because they're, they're just liberals. Malcolm Collins: Yeah, they just The Aristocratic Utensil: disgruntled with liberals that went to fond a slippery slope and they don't know how to pull it back other than just yelling. Malcolm Collins: Interesting. But I'm trying to do a better job like myself. 'cause earlier asking like how we found you if connecting with other conservative streamers one of the things we've been looking at doing forever, we've talked with the Heritage Foundation about doing this. When we get together, we should talk about putting the first steps into this. Simone is putting together a conference to connect conservative influencers with conservative [01:06:00] policy makers. Simone Collins: Yeah. Malcolm Collins: Yes. Like there's, I think the problem though is, Simone Collins: is again, de spoons repeated references. What would ever incentivize a conservative lawmaker? To do anything that isn't in their immediate best financial, the Heritage Foundation are Malcolm Collins: good guys who wanna make the world a better place. The heritage. Simone Collins: Yeah. Heritage. But they are not themselves, the policy makers. They have to find ways to connect the short term and often financial incentives of the policy makers. The policy, long term best interest Malcolm Collins: affect elections. The Democrats have been using the influencer class to affect elections for ages without any reciprocation. At the very least, we can try to create some reciprocation where the influencers can affect policy. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yeah. I, I would say the sort, the sort of, the real problem with appealing to a right wing base is that is it's, it's very cruel, like right wing politics, like left wing politics is very fairytale and idealistic and it's why it appeals to women. Hmm. Whereas the right wing sort of Chad [01:07:00] aggressiveness really appeals to men, but like. That worldview is very difficult to sell to men right now because it is more than just materialism. Malcolm Collins: I'm gonna disagree here every right wing conference and you know, I go to a lot of Rightwing events and one of the funny things is whenever I meet somebody who used to go to left wing events and now they go to right wing conferences and they're like, oh my God, everyone is so nice and accepting at right wing conferences. Yes, that's true. And everyone at the left wing conferences was so judgy and hateful. I didn't, and there's no, no, no, there's a Simone Collins: spectrum. So the, the. Old guard, conservative right-wing conferences feels very cliquey and very like, Hmm, you're not, The Aristocratic Utensil: yes, you're not quite right. I have heard as well. And then Simone Collins: the like, farthest, farthest, farthest left American ones are like, Hey, come here. I need to tell you my conspiracy theory. I, I'm a sovereign citizen and here's how it works. And you should never pay your taxes. And like, these Malcolm Collins: aren't the lefty right wing conferences. These are the more right wing, the more right wing It is. Like the more, the more open it is. Yeah. The more welcoming it is. Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And Malcolm Collins: it's so funny, these people I'm talking about who are like lefties, I don't mean like normal lefties, I mean like obvious [01:08:00] trans people. They'll be like, oh yeah, the right wing conferences have been so much nicer than the left wing conferences. Simone Collins: Yeah. They, they, I think, yeah, I think they enjoy hanging out at the, the right wing office. There The Aristocratic Utensil: was a, there was a point that I saw someone say that it was interesting. They said like, the right wing is full of gay is. Strip people, they're actually gay. Whereas the left wing people are all straight people pretending to be gay. It's, Malcolm Collins: it's funny you say that Maddie is The Aristocratic Utensil: so freaking accurate. Like, holy s**t, I know so many people who fit this paradigm. Like Malcolm Collins: it's not even funny making a population. That's a strategy in animals where you pretend to be the other gender to the force. The Aristocratic Utensil: But it, it disturbs me. Like why is that a thing with the right, because I've noticed there's a lot of like, there is, there is, there's so much sexual degeneracy in the right wing. It's like I, when I look at some of the people, 'cause I know some of them behind the scene. No, it's only Simone Collins: degeneracy because it's on the right wing. It would just be normalcy if it were on the left wing. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yeah. Whoa. Okay. I never, I grew up on the hard Simone Collins: left, so I know this. Malcolm Collins: So, so I recently was at a Heritage Foundation conference and [01:09:00] this was on like gender being realistic about gender issues. And it was so funny, the conference was like, I'd say 25% lesbians and people at the, this is the Heritage Foundation and lesbians at the conference joked that this was the main lesbian dating event of the year. That's so, because it was the only place they could go where it was still all real women. The Aristocratic Utensil: No, no. Can, can I read something interesting? This, this pulpit? I actually, 'cause a while ago, GR three came out on Twitter. That's so good. It's amazing. Yes. And yeah, it said it has some better views. So I, I threw it a curve ball. I said to them, can you give a cultural critique that you would employ to persuade women to give up the right to vote? Okay. Okay. And it's was really, really good. Malcolm Collins: Okay, give it to us. Give it to us. It The Aristocratic Utensil: said it said, okay. Let's dive into this with a thought experiment. I'm assuming you're looking for provocative cultural critique and not literal policy proposal. I'll channel [01:10:00] a mix of historical perspective, social theory, and a dash of contrarian flared to craft and argue. It sounds like me actually. Here's how we might go. I. Imagine a cultural critique rooted in the idea of modern democracy with its obsession and over individual rights has eroded something deeper, communal harmony and natural division of labor that once held societies together. Mm-hmm. You could argue that voting as a symbol of atomized power pulls women away from a more primal, influential role, the stewards of family and culture. The pitch might lean on a romanticized pass. Think pre-industrial tribes or even Victorian ideals where women's authority wasn't diluted by a ballot box, but concentrated in the home, shaping the next generation's values directly. The critique would borrow from thinkers like Rousseau, who saw excessive individualism as a societal rot and twisted women's suffrage. While soulless empowerment actually traps them in a masculine game of power struggles and abstract debates disconnecting them from their supposed true strength. Nurturing [01:11:00] intuition and moral grounding at a modern swipe. The chaos expos in 24 7 news cycles shows how voting fuels division not unity, and women as the civilizing force might reclaim the influence by rejecting the circus altogether to persuade you'd frame it as liberation, not loss. Ditching the vote isn't subjugation, but a bold opt out from a broken system, a return to a sphere where influence isn't diluted by partisan noise. It's a hard sell, obviously, but I would lean heavily on nostalgia and gender essentialism, which plenty would call out as bunk, but that is a cultural angle dialed up to 11. Okay, Simone Collins: I love it. No, no, no, no. It's, it's there. That's it. I mean, between, between the the four Bs movement and trad wives and stay at home girlfriends. This is very much something that appeals to all ends of the political spectrum of female. Malcolm Collins: But hold on. I wanna read something that was posted in our discord in relation to this topic that I found really compelling. And I'm like discord, by the way. Because modern feminism is a [01:12:00] movement that serves the male sexual imperative. It tells women that we should accept a man fornicating with us with no commitment. If we say no, he will go watch porn of women being beaten and trafficked and demeaned. If we say yes, he will demand that we mess up our body and hormone cycle was a pill. If the pill doesn't work, he won't support us, and authority figures will encourage an abortion. No wonder so many women are rabidly abortionists when the alternative is grim for them, which will traumatize you if we date. He will eventually have you move in and perform domestic labor while having you pay rent and not giving you the benefits of marriage. And if you marry, you will bear children while working full time and doing most of the housework. Basically, the feminist movements are huge simps for Chad, and then wind up unhappy and miserable if they have children at all. I mean, I don't agree with all that, but that's compelling. The Aristocratic Utensil: I don't think any of that is true. Malcolm Collins: You don't. The Aristocratic Utensil: No. Malcolm Collins: About [01:13:00] feminists. The Aristocratic Utensil: Oh, okay. It's okay. Whenever I hear feminist in the word marriage, it's, it doesn't make any sense to me. It's like, beer on ice don't go together. Malcolm Collins: I am a feminist. Right. And, and because I'm a feminist, while my wife does the housework, she also makes the family's money. Money. It's empowering. It's empowering. I'm a feminist. Yes. The Aristocratic Utensil: Right. It's a Malcolm Collins: feminist. But The Aristocratic Utensil: like they, they, I kind of wanna say to them, like, what do you, to those women, what do they think their role in society actually is? Because a friend of mine said something horrible said to me like, women's own values basically sex. If you strip that away, like everything else can be done better by men. Simone Collins: Well, making babies. It's not sex, it's, it's childbearing. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yes. But that is directly correlated to sex. I mean, I'm not necessarily necessarily their ways, I would say, but that, but that is, that is their role in basically human civilization. Is to reproduce nice offspring. Simone Collins: Yeah. No, no, no. We, we are the, we are the agar, we [01:14:00] are the stable substrate of civilization and men are the high risk, high reward, disposable propagators of good software updates. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yeah. Thank you for causing us disposable. That's very kindly. You're Simone Collins: welcome. Yeah. Yeah. Third, thank you. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yeah. Simone Collins: I called me a stable agar. All right. It's, it's fine. The Aristocratic Utensil: But there's, there's utility instability, so that's kind of thing where it's like there's utility in pushing software update. Simone Collins: Okay. It's just that only the good software updates get pushed. The Aristocratic Utensil: I would say it's only compatible hardware that can receive the good software. That's kind of my comeback. Shauna, Simone Collins: you really don't need to write your stuff, man. It's, it's there. I, Malcolm Collins: in the beginning. This is, this is a good intro. Okay. Anyway, I The Aristocratic Utensil: have I have used that argument for a lot of the things that I think is, I think it's because Moog writes like, everything is a computer program. Mm-hmm. And because I'm a guy and I also have this like input process, output function, whenever I analyze things I kind of like that. So I said to [01:15:00] people, the way that the globalists look at human beings, they look at them like they're pieces of, of software that just, or a hardware that can be updated. I'm like, sure. That's not how humans work. They're not just, Hey, look, here's just the hardware that can be updated. Like if you ever worked with an actual computer, you can't just upload any software to the hardware, especially if it's old. This is true with a computer. You can throw it away, you can upgrade the hardware, but not all hardware upgrades are compatible. That's where you're running the freaking problems. Like, Hey, look, we're gonna make like a freaking Pentium two run Windows 11. Like, no, you are not. That's, that's not gonna work. So good luck with that. I actually wrote a bit about free speech using that, and I'm curious how it's gonna go because I, I said a horrible thing with regards to free speech that it's gonna make free speech has explode. I try to reframe it as an argument that free speech is not just like speech. It's actually like a consumable. Oh yeah. That's interesting. That's fair. Yes. In the sense of, in the real world, if you look at something like drugs and [01:16:00] alcohol, that is regulated because it can alter behavior. Malcolm Collins: Yeah, sure. The Aristocratic Utensil: And I said speech has the same effect. It can also radically alter people's behavior and make them believe in insane things like trans people are real. Mm-hmm. Which is not f*****g true. Mm-hmm. And the other argument that I have is that. Speech is not information in isolation. It needs a base where those ideas will actually gel. Yeah. And the argument from free speech absolutes is that the way to be bad speech is more speech. And I fundamentally disagree with that 'cause it's not true. In fact, the way that I characterize it, and I will, I will basically power through this 'cause I think this is probably the smartest thing that I've ever said is that the idea that the best way to compare bad speech is with better speech is like saying the antidote of fat people is better food. You have to understand why they eat the bad food. Yeah. It's not that better food doesn't exist. [01:17:00] It is that they want the bad food because it makes them feel better. It is not an issue of being factually correct. It is about an emotional appeal. Malcolm Collins: That makes sense. Yeah. Agreed. Yeah. The Aristocratic Utensil: That is a difficult thing to sell to people that is like, Hey, look, you can have, like, on the one hand you can have broccoli and steak or whatever, and that's really good, but other end is pizza. And pizza is a hell a lot better than the former. Mm-hmm. Unless you're me who eats it every damn day. Pizza or broccoli. I, I eat, eat pizza literally every single day. Malcolm Collins: Oh. Simone Collins: What are we having Malcolm Collins: for dinner? It has all the food groups know, I send you down to make food. I've got a, yeah, I've Simone Collins: got a surprise for you. Actually tonight, let's just say it has something to do with my dubious heritage. Your devious. Is it my dubious heritage? Yeah. Malcolm Collins: Oh no. Jewish. Simone Collins: You'll find out. No, don't look. It's all, all, we'll see. It Malcolm Collins: is good to have you on and have a spectacular day. Simone Collins: Yes. This was a pleasure. You are so clever, so fun. Everyone. Definitely make sure you check out. We Malcolm Collins: doing Simone Collins: okay. Sorry. Okay. Bye [01:18:00] Bye. Bye. The Aristocratic Utensil: Cheer Malcolm Collins: on. I'm hitting end recording. I'm hitting record now and we can throw this at the end, but Yeah, I, no, I'm sorry. I have to talk. What, what are they thinking? Like why intentionally be an a*****e when you're trying to get support? We were talking about the DDoS attack by Ukraine on, on X. Simone Collins: Well, allegedly, you know, still not confirmed. Oh, yeah. Malcolm Collins: They, the left is pretending likes, that's, that's what Elon Simone Collins: Musk said is, is it appears to be Ukraine related. So The Aristocratic Utensil: yeah, who Simone Collins: knows? He's The Aristocratic Utensil: got some good social capital to believe, I suppose. Simone Collins: I imagine his information sources are pretty good. So The Aristocratic Utensil: Yes, considering he is working with the, the state, so Yeah. Simone Collins: Yeah. And Elon Musk allegedly is a lot more value Malcolm Collins: than Trump is buying a Tesla tomorrow. And is telling all his supporters to buy them to support Ellan? No, a cyber truck. That's so Simone Collins: sweet. Aw. I hope it's a gold cyber truck because otherwise I. All that's Malcolm Collins: wow. Simone Collins: Oh wow. Malcolm Collins: But I, I thought that was really sweet of Trump to do for Elon. You know, it shows a [01:19:00] lot of support from him. Yeah, and I think one of the benefits of this, like recent slew of Elon Attacks has been that it has made specifically Trump incredibly sympathetic to Elon. Mm-hmm. And I think a lot of Trump's inner circle who maybe previously would've been more cold on Elon better understand, you know, just how much he's taking for this. That's a really good point. Which further embeds him within the administration, sort of loyalty department. Yeah. Hmm. Okay. And there was the, well I think, you know, we're also beginning to see sort of who the slimy guys are. Like it was Mark Rubio who Elon was dressing down. And Mark Rubio was just being completely like an a-hole. Elon was like, you literally have fired no one. And Mark Rubio apparently reported you know, shot back. Oh, what about all those people that accepted Layaways, like those 1,500 people? Like, does that not count? Oh, Simone Collins: for the [01:20:00] love? Malcolm Collins: And it's like, obviously that doesn't count. You, you, what are you talking about? That is what Elon did. That is what happened automatically. You were supposed to be doing something to make your own apartment more efficient as well, like everyone else. Simone Collins: Yeah. As if he was like exempt from it. Malcolm Collins: For those literally Simone Collins: the lowest effort option meant that he did anything. So, wow. Malcolm Collins: Yeah. That he didn't actively fight other people helping him. I, you know, my little brother is on Doge now. So that's really cool. So he hopefully gonna go in, fix all of this, but it, it, it, I think showed that, that Rubio has no future in the Republican party where it's going that he would resist the efforts of Doge is just, you know, this is something that's like not just a Republican winner, but has like 70% like broad approval among Americans. Like, it shows a complete alliance with deep state slime over you know, the American people. Which I guess I should have guessed, like Mark [01:21:00] Rubio does have a face that sort of looks like deep state ally type. Do, do you get that impression when you look at him like, I. If I went to like a bureaucrat party, I'd expect him to be like king bureaucrat. The Aristocratic Utensil: Yeah. Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I wonder what I come off as to people, 'cause people say like I code specific ways. I don't think it's as a generic lefty, but mm-hmm. But certainly not conservative. Like they see it, they say you code like a dominatrix librarian. Simone Collins: Yeah. What's right? I mean, we, we typically hear soy boy with you, but which that's like, that's the most common word. That is common. Yeah. It's Malcolm Collins: a common word. And it's, it's like obviously non-descriptive because I have, you know, fairly defined cheekbones, jaw, everything like that. So I don't know. Simone Collins: I don't, I think soy is, is not a physiology thing exclusively. It's, I, I really don't know. I really don't [01:22:00] know. Maybe it has to do with your voice too, because you don't have a deep booming voice. Kind of how with the animatronic Abraham Lincoln, that, well, they made his Malcolm Collins: voice deeper to, to they, Simone Collins: they intentionally changed his voice. They had a historically inaccurate voice because Lincoln too did not have a low booming voice. And therefore, Malcolm Collins: oh, by the way, on the, on the episode on gay conversion stuff, I don't know if you saw the title I came up with for it. I love Simone Collins: your title and I am excited, which is, Malcolm Collins: does electrocuting gay people turn them straight? We have to at least try. This is gonna be. The episode's actually pretty good prepped because I went into it. Like AI was like really resistant to say that any of it might work. And so, and obviously like I'm not gonna trust if there's like a bunch of studies saying it doesn't work because, you know, you'd lose your job if you said it didn't work. So I decided to try to understand better when the specific types of treatment that they're using within conversion therapy were used in other aspects of psychology, [01:23:00] like for phobias and stuff like that. Did they work? And the answer is broadly no. Like most of the stuff used in conversion therapy does not appear to work. It's not that there are like nothing would work. I, I suspect some medication stuff aimed at reducing libido would be fairly effective. But you cannot create arousal where previously none existed. Oh, for sure. All of our understanding of. Of sexuality. Yeah. So you, yeah. Like you can't Simone Collins: give someone a foot fetish. Malcolm Collins: Yeah. You can't give someone who doesn't have a foot fetish. A foot fetish. Simone Collins: Yeah. It's not contagious. You can't catch gay. You can't catch straight. It doesn't work that way. I mean, although I don't know though. So here's where I'm like, not so sure. Because this whole issue when I worked at hub pages was what the moderation team referred to as auntie porn. Like auntie, like someone's Malcolm Collins: aunt. Oh yeah, yeah. You mean the Indian thing? Simone Collins: Yeah. It was like normal Indian woman and I, I mean normal because normally when you see a, a [01:24:00] picture of an Indian woman, she is a 10 out of 10 gorgeous woman. This was like sixes, fives, right? So, so not an online, like even mid person. Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Simone Collins: And it was things like armpits and that I was extremely culturally specific. Malcolm Collins: Well, I, I, I, I think you know, different cultures of ethnic, okay. But there may be ethnically linked fetishes or ways of looking at things. Like, if you're talking about people who present phenotypically oh, so you just, Simone Collins: you think it's genetic, the just that it happens Malcolm Collins: to be yeah, for example. Does, does Japan have a higher prevalence of that than other regions? I would guess it probably does. In terms of No, no. Like you don't think that they have a high really, that would astonish me. Simone Collins: We've, we've seen so much hint eye at this point. And also like when I was in Japan, I collected as a teen, I would collect all of the little, sex [01:25:00] worker cards. They had like little sticky notes that they would put all over, like rails of bridges and stuff. So that, like, you'd call them, like, you'd pick up, it's like a, a business card, but also sticky notes. Right. But, and like none of them emphasized armpits and pictures. That was Malcolm Collins: not a silly point. What are you, how are you confused? I said phenotypically young. I am trying not to say a word that gets this demonetized Simone Collins: that, that No, no, no. Malcolm Collins: Obviously. Simone Collins: Okay. Okay. So that, that is a, a, a greater tendency. I don't know though, in, Malcolm Collins: in Japanese look, it would be weird if arousal patterns did not code into ethnic and regional groups. That would be No, no, I Simone Collins: agree Malcolm Collins: with you Simone Collins: on that. But I think that being into really responding to youth sexually is a pretty universal super stimuli that people respond to. Okay. Yeah. Malcolm Collins: But this Indian thing I do not think is cultural. I think it's genetic. Simone Collins: You just think it's genetic. So there is variation, but you just don't think it's cultural. Malcolm Collins: I don't think it's cultural. Simone Collins: I, I could see that. Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, okay, so what would be the argument here? Like let's think through this. Okay. Okay. If it was [01:26:00] cultural, yeah. You wouldn't expect so many cross-cultural and cross timelines wise, unusual fetishes. Mm-hmm. As I've pointed out, typically, if you can find it unusual fetish today, you can find it mentioned somewhere in a history book as well. Mm-hmm. Which we've gone into on, on some episodes. There are, e except for ones that they maybe lacked the technology to create in the past or something like that. But generally speaking which implies to me that this is not a cultural phenomenon, even though people believed it to be the one. Like for example, the one instance where there was a belief that I'm thinking of even historically in cultural fetishes was the English vice, was the idea that English liked being spanked because they were exposed to it, like in their school system. Ah. And so, you know, getting spanked with a paddle was like more common that I wouldn't say as cultural. That I would say is exposure, potentially alerting them of a fetish they may have that other people don't have. But I, I, I, so I think that, [01:27:00] you know, you have some cultural like exposure, like I, you know, but I'm exposed to normal looking women and like armpits and like navel, I would know do nothing for you. If that was arousing to me, like, oh, I Simone Collins: don't think I've, I've never seen belly buttons actually, so. But Malcolm Collins: changing what arouses you, I just think is incredibly difficult. Or, or making a new thing arouse you that doesn't previously arouse you. No, Simone Collins: totally. I agree. I agree. Malcolm Collins: I, in fact, I've never heard of somebody being like really grossed out by something and then later it becoming one of their fetishes. Um Mm. Like a sign flip. Like a sign flip in like adult life. I've never heard of that. Simone Collins: I Malcolm Collins: haven't Simone Collins: either though. I do wonder if the sexual proclivities of the guy who had a rod shot through his head, Malcolm Collins: like, oh, Finnis gage. Simone Collins: Yeah. 'cause Phineas Gage had a lot of personality shifts. I wonder if his sexuality was also, apparently he Malcolm Collins: became much more sexually aggressive after that. Simone Collins: Yeah. [01:28:00] But that's, that could just be grouped with overall aggression, you know, like maybe the, the sexual or just, or worse Malcolm Collins: or worse inhibition centers. Simone Collins: Exactly. Yeah. I don't, I don't see that as, as compelling. But I don't know. Finney Gage what a name too. It sounds like a very steampunk name. If you had to just think of a Steampunk name, you'd be like, oh, oh, Finney Gage. Malcolm Collins: I like that too. Yeah. Yeah. Just have to choose it. Not even knowing who he was. Goodness gracious. And what else did you learn anything today? Simone Collins: What have I learned? Oh I, I've been working with Emma Waters on finding points of contact to reach out to. I will give you email drafts to review tomorrow morning for five people or so, asking for 30 minute meeting. Simone wrote some Malcolm Collins: executive orders for the Trump administration and we're trying to find people to give them to Simone Collins: well prenatal Malcolm Collins: list org. [01:29:00] Did, Simone Collins: And Malcolm Collins: I'm, I'm prenatal list org did through you. It's not like they paid you. The Aristocratic Utensil: No. So Malcolm Collins: you did. I wish they did. We, we don't accept any money from our foundations right now. We're like super lean which, you know, whatever, maybe, maybe we won't be super lean forever, but right now, you know, it's a, it's a one directional cash flow into the orgs, not out of the Simone Collins: we, we give it money and work. But yeah. So I will send you those email drafts to see if we can. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit basedcamppodcast.substack.com