Navigating the Age of Chaos Part 1 with Jamais Cascio And Bob Johansen

Episode Summary: In Part 1 of this two-episode series, Aidan McCullen is joined by futurists Bob Johansen and Jamais Cascio, co-authors of Navigating the Age of Chaos: A Sensemaking Guide to a BANI World That Doesn't Make Sense. The trio unpacks the BANI Framework — Brittle, Anxious, Nonlinear, Incomprehensible — and explores how it helps us make sense of a world where traditional models like VUCA no longer apply.   Discover how anxiety, complexity, systemic fragility, and incomprehensible change are reshaping our lives and futures — and what we can do to adapt and thrive in the face of it all.   Key Discussion Points: From VUCA to BANI: Why old models fail System fragility and the myth of stability Psychological burnout in the age of anxiety Non-linear risk and delayed cause-effect dynamics Incomprehensibility and the collapse of trust in truth   Links & Resources: 🌐 Book: Navigating the Age of Chaos – https://ageofbani.com 📘 Bob Johansen – https://www.iftf.org 🧠 Jamais Cascio – https://www.openthefuture.com 🎙️ Sponsored by Kyndryl – https://kyndryl.com 🎓 Host and Irish Keynote Speaker Aidan McCullen and The Innovation Show is the first podcast to be recognised by Thinkers50, the global ranking body for management thinkers. https://aidanmccullen.com For those wondering what the anime mentioned by Jamais is: One Piece, in particular the group in the series called the "Straw Hat Pirates." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Piece_(1999_TV_series) https://www.npr.org/2025/10/05/nx-s1-5560980/gen-z-protesters-one-piece-pirate-flag 00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message 00:21 Reflecting on the Decade: 2015-2025 01:41 Introducing the B.A.N.I. Framework 02:24 Meet the Authors: Bob Johansen and Jamais Cascio 04:29 The Evolution from VUCA to BANI 16:18 Understanding Brittle in BANI 30:14 Exploring Anxious in BANI 37:03 Alan Watts and the Timeless Nature of Anxiety 38:18 Resilience in the Face of Extinction 39:30 The Persistent Relevance of VUCA 39:52 The Unique Challenges of BANI 41:13 Interconnected Crises and Their Compounding Effects 44:30 The Participatory Panopticon and Surveillance 49:28 Non-Linearity and Climate Hysteresis 01:00:23 Stochastic Terrorism and Its Implications 01:02:44 Incomprehensibility in a BANI World 01:10:37 Conclusion and Further Resources Coming Soon: 👉 Part 2: BANI Plus – Flipping the Framework Positive