Meet historian Rutger Bregman – fighting the good fight with 'realistic idealism'

In this episode, we talk to Rutger Bregman. You might remember the Dutch historian and author from a 2019 appearance at the World Economic Forum in Davos, which went viral after he called out millionaires and billionaires for tax avoidance. He joins us to talk about everything from the loss of America's moral authority after the re-election of Donald Trump, to why we need more ordinary people speaking up and defending principles of human decency. This week's Good Weekend features an extract from Bregman’s new book, Moral Ambition, examining our monstrous and long-running cruelty to animals. Hosting the conversation – which also delves into the corrosiveness of misogynistic male influencers, as well as the role of “realistic idealism” in improving our society's moral trajectory – is Good Weekend acting editor Greg Callaghan. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.