What’s Happening to Our Economy Is Like a Natural Disaster

The Biden administration’s first legislative priority is a $1.9 trillion economic rescue package. It’s the kind of mega-package where the individual policies contained inside it — a $15 minimum wage, $1,400 checks, a huge child tax credit expansion, a $50 billion virus testing infrastructure — would be big deals on their own. But together, this would be one of the most consequential packages ever passed. So there’s a lot to talk about here. And who better to talk about it with than my now-colleague Paul Krugman? We dig into the details of the plan and then spiral off into some other topics I wanted to run by the nearest Nobel laureate: the major rethinking of debt and deficits among left-of-center economists, the differences between Keynesians and Modern Monetary Theorists, how Krugman made a bunch of money off Bitcoin (it’s not how you’d think!), why progressives need a better theory of technological change, Krugman’s favorite indie bands of the mid-2000s, and more. Mentioned in this episode:  “Notes on the Coronacoma (Wonkish)” by Paul Krugman “Why Markets Boomed in a Year of Human Misery” by Neil Irwin and Weiyi Cai “Who’s Afraid of Budget Deficits?” By Jason Furman and Lawrence Summers “Public Debt: Fiscal and Welfare Costs in a Time of Low Interest Rates” by Olivier Blanchard “America’s anti-democratic Senate, in one number” by Ian Millhiser Book Recommendations:  “Laundry Files” series by Charlie Stross “Merchant Princes” series by Charlie Stross “The Price of Peace” by Zachary Carter Band Recommendations:  The Be Good Tanyas Larkin Poe Reina del Cid You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of "The Ezra Klein Show" at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com. “The Ezra Klein Show” is produced by Rogé Karma and Jeff Geld; fact-checking by Michelle Harris; original music by Isaac Jones; mixing by Jeff Geld.