ENB #117 Alex Rossman, CEO, Entrepreneur and Podcast Hostdiscussing marketing in a world of sensorship in social media.

This is a great episode talking about an important topic in the energy space, and that is big tech censorship. I have been banned by the U.N. and called lots of names, but those are badges of honor. It's about humanity, taking care of the environment, and letting the markets decide which energy platform to use. Let's use them all, with the least impact on the environment. We help clients primarily in the medical and energy markets. Both of these are subject to censorship, even when you agree partially with someone. So getting to visit with Alex about marketing, social media management, and his successful business leadership is a real treat for me to learn for my own personal benefit, and to help me with my client's needs. Enjoy this fun podcast, and if you are a thought leader, please reach out to me at any time. Alex, thank you for your time, and congratulations on your great success. - stop by anytime. - Stu Please follow Alex on his LinkedIn HERE Rossman Media website: Rossmanmedia.com About Alex Rossman You may have seen Alex sharing the stage alongside renowned digital marketers like Gary Vaynerchuk and Tai Lopez OR performing his music alongside acts like The Chainsmokers. Starting his career as a touring musical artist in his early 20’s, he quickly learned the skills of PR and social media. Alex, as a well-versed entrepreneur, took his passion for social media and transformed it into an award-winning agency. Since Rossman Media’s origin in 2017, Alex and his team have been awarded “Best New Social Media Agency” of 2020 by Business Insider. 00:00 - Intro 01:15 - Intro to Alex Rossman 03:00 - Who is Alex Rossman's Client 05:28 - how do you reach out to the CEO of the Airbnb 08:13 - Hardships 10:07 - Advice from Alex Rossman about running their own business 11:13 - What was the worst presentation you gave as the CEO 13:34 - talk about the Chargers 16:25 - Talks about how Alex changed the business model 20:12 - What made Alex CEO 21:42 - What is next for Alex Rossman's firm 24:01- What if Alex gets a client from energy, what do they do 25:32- Alex doing sub stack, google or YouTube 31:16- Talks about the call to action 33:10 - Outro Following Transcript is an automatic generation, and we disavow any errors unless it makes us funnier or better looking. Stuart Turley [00:00:04] Hello, Everybody Welcome. Today is just not a great day. It's a fabulous day because I get to talk on the Energy News Beat Podcast. My name's Stuart Turley, president, CEO of the Sandstone Group and I've got Alex Rossman here. He is an extraordinary CEO that we get to talk to. Alex is the CEO of Rosman Media. Hey, thank you, Alex. Appreciate you stopping by. Alex Rossman [00:00:30] Thanks for having me, Stuart. I'm excited for this. I already like the energy this is going to be a good one. Stuart Turley [00:00:35] Oh hey,Thank you. I if you notice, before, while we were chit chatting, I had about four espressos where we got to go. You got to have some express those, but. Alex Rossman [00:00:44] It doesn't show. Stuart Turley [00:00:46]  But you know, I just appreciate you reaching out and we're going to have some fun because I want to learn on what you've done. As we were chit chatting in the beginning of this, you had started Rossman Media, what, eight years ago, nine years ago. Alex Rossman [00:01:04] Was actually a little over seven, but Kevin feels probably more. Stuart Turley [00:01:08] What is it like dog years? Yeah, yeah, dog years. Right. Okay, so what prompted this? Alex Rossman [00:01:15] So, you know, I I've got kind of an interesting, you know, back story. It's not the typical, you know, went to school to become a CEO of a marketing agency. I actually was a singer songwriter and producer in college and even right after college with with a record label and did some touring. Alex Rossman [00:01:37] And so I, you know, did music while also promoting my own music. So that was a big part of kind of my early, you know, kind of early to mid twenties. And then, you know, obviously to to pay the bills. I had a a nice corporate job in San Diego at ADP, which is a big payroll company, I'm sure. Stuart Turley [00:01:56] Oh yeah. Alex Rossman [00:01:56] If anyone's been paid, you know, via paycheck, you'd see the ADP logo somewhere on that check. So I was in sales and marketing, did about two years there and realized, you know, it was first of all, great training. So anybody looking to get into sales training, I think that is a great way to start your career,. Stuart Turley [00:02:14] Right. Alex Rossman [00:02:15] But I wanted to do something different. I've always been very entrepreneurial, even at a young age. I always say that I feel like entrepreneurs, you know, they beat to their own drum, they break rules, they don't stay in the line. I've always been that way. Alex Rossman [00:02:28] And so I wanted to find a career path that meshed my creative side and my sales and marketing side. And I'm an accidental marketing agency owner and I've been doing it now a little over seven years. Stuart Turley [00:02:41] Accidental acts like The Accidental Tourist, or when I was growing up, we'd step in a pile and call it accidental, you know? Yeah. Alex Rossman [00:02:52] So, yeah. Stuart Turley [00:02:54] There's a lot of things that are accidental, and it sounds like it was really good. Who's your clients? Alex Rossman [00:03:00] So we work with Fortune 500 Enterprise clients all the way down to startup. So our whole methodology is we want to work with mission driven brands that, you know, we believe in and support. Alex Rossman [00:03:14] So we're actually the first agency that you probably see out there in the marketplace that we probably turned down more prospective clients than we bring on not to be super exclusive or, you know, you know, but really more so to get behind brands for the long term, you know, help them in every inflection point of their growth. And that's been a really exciting journey for for us. I mean, we worked with the Airbnbs of the world, you know, down to, you know, your small mom and pop shops. Stuart Turley [00:03:43] Wow. Now, you couldn't do this alone. How do you find help? Alex Rossman [00:03:49] First couple of years, I did it alone. I think there's probably a lot of lot of listeners here that are we call solopreneurs. But, you know, after a while, you know, you kind of bring on clients, you bring on staff, bring on more clients, bring in more staff and now we're at the stage where we're a little over 50 full time employees and. Stuart Turley [00:04:10] Wow,. Alex Rossman [00:04:10] Growing like crazy. So, no, you definitely get to a point where you cannot do it alone. And, you know, that's where it really gets important to, you know, attract the right people. Stuart Turley [00:04:20] Oh, absolutely. And so when you sit back and kind of go, I'm dead meat without my staff, and I just absolutely love them. Their number one job, Alex, is to keep me from looking stupid. They've got a full time job just to do that. And they even the producers even cut out my fat side. Stuart Turley [00:04:40] So, you know, I'll tell you what, when you sit back and go when you're finding your customers. I have found on our podcast that industry thought leadership works and we built a machine that is on our from our news site industry thought leadership, and then it fans out to all of the social. Stuart Turley [00:05:04] We're currently getting between 20 and 30,000 50,000 people a day on our website and it's all because of my guests. It's all because of the news. It's because of the way my employees have notched it up. It's not me. Stuart Turley [00:05:23] So when you sit back and take a look at thought leadership. Alex, how do you reach out to the CEO of the Airbnbs of the world and say you need to, as a CEO, get in front of your clients? How do you do that? Alex Rossman [00:05:39] Yeah, you know what? I love that. First of all, congratulations. I mean, hitting that amount of viewership is is awesome. I mean, that's just clearly you're providing a lot of value to your listeners guests are great, too, but you're asking the right questions clearly, and people want to share it. So kudos to you. Alex Rossman [00:05:57] So, you know, to your question, here's what I'll say is that great building value and what you're doing, I think some people think that they just have to be on camera. They've got to, you know, push some sort of, you know, agenda. Really what it comes down to is you've got to put yourself in your audience's shoes. You've got to think about what what are their pain points, what gets them going, what keeps them up at night. Once you know that, then you're speaking from a place of knowledge and thought leadership where they see value in what you're saying. Alex Rossman [00:06:31] So for me, for instance, I mean, when I was getting started, it was the San Diego Chargers. When they were in San Diego, that was our first client and it just took persistence of sharing what I believed would help them versus, hey, here's my sales pitch by. For me, it was more so, hey, here's where I see areas of opportunity here's how we can help you. Alex Rossman [00:06:52] And when you come, come at it from a place of service versus, you know, buy me, buy this, buy that, you'll start to see that naturally you attract people. And so, again, my my first piece of advice is to be of service. And what you'll attract from that is incredible. Stuart Turley [00:07:11] In that fun. So when you now when you do your podcast in your messaging, do you produce podcasts for other folks and things? Alex Rossman [00:07:22] We do. So some clients, you know, that's a part of their marketing strategy. You know, they want to be on camera. They want to talk with other like minded entrepreneurs. Alex Rossman [00:07:31] So, you know, I think this is a great outlet, particularly CEOs that are comfortable in front of the camera want to share, you know, their knowledge and their skill set to the rest of the world. I think this is a an incredible outlet. Stuart Turley [00:07:46] What were some of the hardest things that you had to overcome, like getting a bank, you know, getting permits? I mean, it's not like you're getting a liquor license. I have to go get a liquor license for people that listen to the show. You know, I got to get them at least, you know, put it out that five star rating we got to get them all happy and everything. What were some of your hardest things that you had to do? Alex Rossman [00:08:13] Oh, well, do we have a few hours? We'll all be here for a while. No. You know, I think in entrepreneurship, Stu, I mean, I'm sure you know, and through talking with people, you know, there is no straight line to success. Right there just. There isn't. Alex Rossman [00:08:27] There are so many ebbs and flows along the way. And my philosophy is, as long as you're still moving as and you're still not stopping, because there's a lot of times where I think many people would throw in the towel, you know, there's. Stuart Turley [00:08:41] Right. Yeah. Alex Rossman [00:08:41] You lose a big client or you lose a critical employee. There's financial restraints, constraints. I mean, there are so many things that go wrong in running a business. But I think the biggest thing is just to capitalize on the momentum, continue to move in. The worst thing you can do is stop. You've got to overcome those obstacles. And frankly, you've got to be comfortable with being uncomfortable because being an entrepreneur is not for the faint of heart. Stuart Turley [00:09:10] No, and I love the way you're phrasing that. You got to keep moving. For me, that means something else. You know, at my age, I love bike riding. I've got to be bike riding and when I. Absolutely, I'm I'm very grumpy when I can't do that and needless to say, my wife just says, you know, you're being a bonehead. And I just say, okay, great, I'm going to the lake house now. I mean, I'm getting on bikes so and so. Alex Rossman [00:09:38] Getting on the bike to go to the lake house right now. Stuart Turley [00:09:41] Oh, that would be I, I just started sweating thinking about how hard that would be. But as we sit here and think about this, what are some things and advice that you would give to some of someone thinking, I'm tired of being behind a desk. I would like to get my own thing. What do you. What is some of the advice there? Alex Rossman [00:10:07] Well, nothing happens overnight so I think I think a lot of people naturally think that, you know, they can flip a switch, go from a corporate job to running their own business in a matter of weeks. It's just not the case. So my recommendation is for somebody that really wants to start their own business is start it as a side hustle. Right. So you've got your 9 to 5 job. You're you're collecting that paycheck because you need that, right. Alex Rossman [00:10:36] So you're essentially going to have to get comfortable with working 9 to 5, taking a break and then working six to midnight and, you know, burning the midnight oil. I think it is so important that you look at it as truly if you want to make it something that you can actually pursue as a career, you're going to have to really work hard at it and you're going to have to make a lot of sacrifices in your life to get there. But it's doable, and especially if it's something that you really feel that you can't live without. And it's it's a calling for you. It's something you're passionate about, something that you're good at. Stuart Turley [00:11:10] Right. Alex Rossman [00:11:11] That would be my recommendation. Stuart Turley [00:11:13] What was the worst presentation you gave as the CEO? Alex Rossman [00:11:19] Probably the first one of the San Diego Chargers. I think, you know, you talk about like fake it until you make it. You know, I walked in there. You know, why would a major professional football team spend any marketing dollars with a guy that just started his company yesterday? Stuart Turley [00:11:36] Right. Alex Rossman [00:11:36] Trying to sell them on this whole new ticketing package and social media. So, you know, it was a it was a good meeting because I ended up getting them as a client, which is awesome. Stuart Turley [00:11:48] Right Alex Rossman [00:11:49] But, you know, it was a it was a tough presentation. It was it was you know, you're in a sitting in a boardroom with C-level, C-level executives you know, I'm in my early twenties and it just it was it was hard hitting, to say the least. But, you know, through those, you know, I guess bad presentations with that which that one definitely was not my on my A-game. It definitely you learn a lot you know you learn where you know, your faults were, how you can get better and you know it's you got to have them so you can continue to improve. Stuart Turley [00:12:21] I'll tell you, I'm going to do a little inside baseball as opposed a little inside football. Alex Rossman [00:12:27] There you go. Stuart Turley [00:12:27] But my worst presentation in my career was I was doing it at a major airline for major executives and my fly was undone is I'm up there walking around. And if you can only imagine, I present with my hands and I'm doing this down. I'm like, Holy smokes. Stuart Turley [00:12:47] So I take a pan and I throw it into the briefcase behind me and I proceed to zip my fly up and then I start to turn around except I can't stand up. I've got my fly stuck in my zipper. And I'm like, Oh, no, This is the one of the biggest presentations I've ever done. And so I'm sitting here and I just start, yeah, I get the fly that out of there and there's threads hanging out of the zipper. And anyway, I got the order, so, you know, that's. Alex Rossman [00:13:17] Hey, there you go. But, you know, and that is that story definitely trumps mind, that one. Stuart Turley [00:13:24] I've done so many stupid things. Like I said, that goes back to the first thing my, my staff has to do is keep me from being stupid. But when we sit down and talk about the Chargers, you had to go up from there. Now, did you support them? Because if you were just starting out, you only had if you did you like work 90 hours a week? Alex Rossman [00:13:46] Yeah. Great, great question. Absolutely. I mean, you get that deal, then you realize, okay, why did the first part of it I got the sale, now I have to deliver. And I think there's a lot of, you know, entrepreneurs are just getting started in a similar boat. You've got the deal. That's great, but now you've got to deliver. Alex Rossman [00:14:04] And that's where it gets tricky, right? I mean, you've got to that's how you build value. That's how you build trust. So the last thing I want to do, especially somebody that's putting their name on the business, is to not deliver. Alex Rossman [00:14:15] So, yes, it was long hours. It was, you know, hiring the right contractors to help get that project done. And fortunately, it turned out great and, you know, I will tell you, it's from that one deal, there has been multiple deals that have been referred because of that. So, you know, again, I always preface that if you can deliver and especially what you promised, you know, that adds so much in terms of incremental value. Stuart Turley [00:14:45] Oh, absolutely. And so as you sit there and you build on the next one, I think you you nailed it with the reference you know, if you get that reference when you when you do. But I love your comment. Good news is I got the bio bad news. I got to be a. Alex Rossman [00:15:05] Double edged sword for sure. Stuart Turley [00:15:06] Yeah. You know, I'd almost have to do a Scooby Doo on that one on a few of my clients that I got, you know, is like retro. Alex Rossman [00:15:15] I'm going to steal that one. The Scooby Doo. I like that. Stuart Turley [00:15:17] Oh, yeah, me and Shaggy, you know. But for Yoda, we can break it down into Yoda imitations. I love y'all as you come around the corner,. Alex Rossman [00:15:30] Arent you are. Stuart Turley [00:15:31] Trouble you are. Alex Rossman [00:15:34] Way better. It's better. Stuart Turley [00:15:37] Okay. I'm old, but mentally I'm 12. Alex Rossman [00:15:42] I love it. Still a kid at heart. Stuart Turley [00:15:44] Oh, yeah. You know it. You know I've got a business partner that is absolutely one of the greatest millennials on the planet and I love him. He is one of my co-hosts for the Energy News Beat, and he puts a whole new definition on Millennial. So I have to say that I have to keep up with him. And he teases that he has a hard time keeping up with me. Stuart Turley [00:16:08] So with Rossman Media what kind of services do you provide that got the San Diego Chargers hooked? And did you? I'm going to ask two parter, Alex. When you went in there, how did you change your business model to get to the next customer? So you see where I'm going with this? Alex Rossman [00:16:31] Absolutely. Absolutely. So, you know, we I should say we I at that time, you know, really started with what I thought would serve them versus, you know, what do I offer? It's more so what could benefit them and then go source the talent to get it done right. Alex Rossman [00:16:52] So I think that was where it started was, you know, tailoring a service to the client that I knew would provide the most are a why, right? So that's how it started. And then great question is how do you kind of continue to scale that and then hone in really where your strengths are? And for us, as we did continue to grow and hire employees, it was social media,. Alex Rossman [00:17:16] So it was focusing in on building strategies around social media where, you know, your focus on creating content like this. You're focused on running ads to drive new customers, new clients and working with influencers. Alex Rossman [00:17:31] So as you mentioned, other thought leaders or creators to help cross-promote the brand. And so that's really where we've honed in our skill set over the years. And, you know, that's really what's attracted some of the bigger, more heavy hitters to what we're doing. Stuart Turley [00:17:48] Well, the fantastic if you want to namedrop, go ahead and throw some of them out there. You threw out chargers and Airbnb. Yeah, we. Alex Rossman [00:17:57] Worked with Nike Orangetheory Fitness. Gosh, Saks Fifth Avenue. Stuart Turley [00:18:04] Right. Alex Rossman [00:18:04] So we've we've had some really fun, fun established brands. But you know, again, I, I love helping businesses grow. So some of the best case studies you know we have aside from ones that are obviously well established, is seeing some of these businesses go from zero to hero in a matter of a year. And really having that success contributed to our marketing efforts that's what gets me excited about what I do. Stuart Turley [00:18:32] I'm sorry. That is really darn cool because I have almost the same passion for helping people do their getting started with podcast. I have friends that I've been helping and it's kind of fun to see them from their first podcasts, going sweaty palms and asking questions and and going in. Stuart Turley [00:18:50] They're afraid of the microphone, and once they get past that, then all of a sudden their numbers start rolling through and then it starts going in and then it starts rolling. So, you know, helping somebody like that is pretty amazing. Alex Rossman [00:19:07] It is. And and I love that. I mean, I think, you know, you've got and you do it so well, naturally, but, you know, letting down your guard and being, you know, authentically yourself, you know, is is what people want. Alex Rossman [00:19:20] You know, people buy from people and it's it's so important to tell your story, you know, authentically, you know, versus feeling forced. And it takes time. You know, it takes practice with anything. Stuart Turley [00:19:31] Oh, yeah. I mean. Fortunately, we had some bloopers that are like, I'm pretty well liked that shouldn't have been aired. Alex Rossman [00:19:41] I love bloopers though too. I'm definitely somebody that ends up watching the bloopers of movies or shows because I love to see some of that, you know, some of the behind the scenes things that you'd never anticipate. Stuart Turley [00:19:57] Well, Alex, as a person, you seem to like helping others. What tell us what made you the CEO or what are some of your personal things. Alex Rossman [00:20:09] Yeah,. Stuart Turley [00:20:09] Well, not really personal, but personal. Alex Rossman [00:20:12] Yeah. How far are we going here? You know, I would say, you know, I've always been someone that wants to help people. Naturally. Almost to a fault at times, you know, personally. Stuart Turley [00:20:27] Right Alex Rossman [00:20:27] But, you know, I. You know, I really believe that if you are of service, you can be a service to someone you know, not only does it make you feel good, but it truly helps everybody around you. And I feel that, you know, in a world where everybody's kind of me, me, me, I, I kind of take the approach of like, how can I, how can I be of service? How can I help? Stuart Turley [00:20:49] Right Alex Rossman [00:20:50] And, you know, that's worked out well for me. I mean, here's what I'll say is that in running a company, you know, you you definitely look at things a lot differently as you continue to grow and and expand. But at the core of everything, you know, our people, our clients always come first. Stuart Turley [00:21:07] Isn't that cool? Yeah our employees know the same thing. It's like, you know, customer first. But I'll tell you, I try to have as much fun as I possibly can and after it is I feel sorry for my wife. She had three kids, my son, my daughter and me, and she still hasn't. She has not raised me at all. So what is next for Alex and Rossman firm? Media. Alex Rossman [00:21:42] Yeah. So we are actually in the process of what I call we're building a marketing dream team. That is our our goal right now is we talk about service. We want to bring in more and more top talent, top senior level marketing talent so we can continue to serve and help grow businesses of all sizes. Alex Rossman [00:22:00] So what we've been doing is we're actually acquiring other marketing agencies that have a certain specialization that can kind of roll into the fall. So we've got some exciting things in the works there in terms of acquiring a couple other agencies this year and and continuing to build out the team. So that's that's really what's next for us this year, which is very exciting. Stuart Turley [00:22:24] That is extremely cool and I'm finding that even in a weird economy, there's a couple things. We're in health care, energy and a few others. And it's nice not having your your all your eggs in one market. Alex Rossman [00:22:45] Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's I actually just saw a video today that was talking about just that is, you know, you don't want to be super volatile in one area. You know, for us, you know, it's marketing services as a whole, but there's so many different industries that that agencies serve different capabilities. And so you're exactly right. It's really important to be as, you know, diversified as possible. Stuart Turley [00:23:12] Right. You know, I'm I am not a fan of social media, but unfortunately, I have to use it. And I'm only using LinkedIn and Twitter. I think it's an absolute hoot that Elon bought it and Elon, when you're listening to this podcast, go ahead and work with our agency, our folks, and we're going to hire Alex to book you so. Stuart Turley [00:23:38] But I just I'm kind of like nervous about how you get your word out on social media when they're trying to manage what people see what happens if you have a client, let's say, in the energy space? what do you do there? Alex Rossman [00:24:01] Yeah, well, you're not the only person that that has, you know, some of those concerns and fears and, you know, there's a lot of that's just around the data that these social media platforms hold on to. Right. It's a. You know, there's there's benefits for sure. I will say the benefits are more so for brands because they're able to target more effectively. Stuart Turley [00:24:27] Right Alex Rossman [00:24:27] So, you know, if I'm a brand and I'm trying to get to a specific audience, that data is helpful for marketers. So I will say there's there's there's good in that. And I'm sure everyone that's listening has clicked on a product, and that product seems to just kind of follow them everywhere and that's where that data comes in.  Alex Rossman [00:24:45] You know, where I think things get a little sticky is, you know, how social platforms censor certain topics, right? And kind of picking and choosing what information is being put out there. And that's where I think, you know, a lot of these conversations are stemming, you know, within legislation is, you know, how much power that a social media company have when it comes to data and the information being shared. Stuart Turley [00:25:14] I've been the firm belief of also controlling your own destiny like a CEO, but also controlling your own channel that's why I've built news channels and media and substack. Are you doing anything with subs too? I'm impressed with Substack. Alex Rossman [00:25:30] Yeah. Stuart Turley [00:25:31] Amazing platform. Alex Rossman [00:25:32] It is. Yeah. And I have got to say, Stew, I love that you said that because that is a huge thing that we bring up to our clients. Is nice to own your own data, you know, try to own your own thing, your own platform, because that's tried and true, you know, that's going to follow you forever. Alex Rossman [00:25:50] You know, you build a good community that loves your podcast or loves your content and really sees value. And it's very much like having subscribers or, you know, having specific, you know, if you're watching, you know, people, there's all these colts that just love certain TV shows, right, that are just called followers of it. Alex Rossman [00:26:10] If you can build that level of following, you know, that's that's honestly the most impactful that can come through an email list. It can come through building your own website and newsletter. There's so many ways to do that. Stuart Turley [00:26:23] You know what's funny is I'm not seeing everybody following what you're saying and what we've seen, and that is, you know, we take the in dividual thought leadership and we we drop it to the web site. Like I said earlier, we fan it out, but then we put it out on substack. We put it out in all of the original channels. Then we even transcribe because then I can see time on page, you know, somebody is reading it, then you can. Stuart Turley [00:26:54] So Dr. Google loves it when it's integrated in, you know, and you're sitting there, you've got it on YouTube, you've got it. And I love the fact that my employees have come up with all these other ways to help improve and that to me is is just really cool. Alex Rossman [00:27:14] Yeah and I think if you can use some of these tools like Substack, like a YouTube, like Google, I mean, you know, they can also be wildly advantageous for a company that's really trying to grow their following. I mean, you know, there's, you know, again, kind of a double edged sword. But you've got to ask yourself, I mean, is it worth it? And for many businesses, it really is, because you can bring in such a large following. Alex Rossman [00:27:39] And if you can bring people back to you by leveraging some of these platforms, you know, I say go for it, because that is is singlehandedly the best thing you can do as a business. And that's really where a lot of our service is kind of around. Stuart Turley [00:27:55] Well, we were able to raise very good money for firms and we had our very good targeted information and we taught the thought leadership and we just picked that same model up after I built the engine for us and then dropped it into other markets. And it really does work when you start really providing those services. You've nailed every that I've stumbled into some of these things and it seems like you were way ahead of those. Stuart Turley [00:28:30] But as we sit here and turn the corner into this, how do you get your call to actions? Because that to me was some of the hardest things to try to get done. Looking for accredited investors or investors that are being hit by taxes. Until California started going nutty. It was really tough. Then you just target people that are leaving California and they're still going to get taxed when they leave California. Alex Rossman [00:28:58] Yeah,. Stuart Turley [00:28:58] That was that's an easy market to go get. Yeah. So you tell your clients how you tell your clients So the contractions, when we sit back and it was really. Really tough finding that accredited investor for my clients. Alex Rossman [00:29:47] Yeah. Stuart Turley [00:29:47] So how do you define call to action? Because you have call to actions on. By the way, we've just spun up tick tock and you ain't going to find me as a dancing bear on tock. I'm not dressing up or as we talked about, dressing up as Scooby Doo. I'm not. Alex Rossman [00:30:04] Yeah,. Stuart Turley [00:30:05] But maybe I will if I get it. You know, if I get a bunch of followers, I'll do just kidding. Alex Rossman [00:30:10] Yeah, we're going to. We're going to get you there, so I can see that. That'll be hilarious. So you talk about call to action. You know, it's it's about hitting on pain points, right? What's something that, you know is going to immediately make somebody click through? And it's a science, right? It's it's identifying. Alex Rossman [00:30:28] Okay, first of all, who you're targeting, which, you know, before we cut out here, we were talking about, you know, people in California moving outside, talking about taxes, all these things. You've got to you got to understand those pain points. And the call to action has to be short and asked to really be able to get somebody to say, oh, I need this. I need to understand, you know,. Alex Rossman [00:30:50] And it could be as simple as, you know, providing a resource. We talk about being a service. I mean, one of the best things that we do is there's there's no barrier of entry. Click through, get the information you need, and that's that. Alex Rossman [00:31:04] So sometimes, you know, we put too much thought behind how can we monetize something, How can we get somebody to give us their email, things like that but if you do write something and we look at everything from top of funnel down to bottom of funnel marketing targeted, but top of funnel is just is providing answers to what somebody has questions on. So it's a bet right now taxes, things like that. Alex Rossman [00:31:28] Getting that you know, it could be a newsletter, it could be a blog content, you know, click over here to see blah, blah, blah, whatever it is you want to get somebody to click through based off of pain point and then you've captured their data. You can continue to retarget them. And then as they start to, you know, we talk about seeing a product or service seven times before they make a buying decision. Alex Rossman [00:31:49] You know, it's the best thing you can do is just get people that click through and it's, it's a science. It's not, you know, not, not perfect, but as long as you know your audience, it makes it easier. Stuart Turley [00:31:59] Well, I'll tell you what, Alex, you know, I just so appreciate you stopping by the podcast today. How do people find you? I know you're on LinkedIn, but tell us about your firm and how they get ahold of you. Alex Rossman [00:32:14] You can follow me on Rothesay life. That's my handle on Instagram. Probably the best way to see everything that's coming through and media and, you know, my own personal endeavors. And then to visit Rossman Media you can go to Rawson Media dot com. Check out everything that we've got going there from case studies to services. And then of course, on LinkedIn, I try to share as much as I can there. Stuart Turley [00:32:41] Nice. Well, how can I help you? Alex Rossman [00:32:44] Oof! Good question. Well, you know what? This was helpful in in itself. It's good to talk with other, you know, like minded podcast hosts. And, you know, I hope that, you know, you can help us maybe produce a podcast of our own. I think right now we're pretty heavy into, you know, being a guest. But I think ultimately we need to practice what we preach. Stuart Turley [00:33:05] Oh, we'll talk after. Alex Rossman [00:33:09] Perfect. Stuart Turley [00:33:10] Well, thank you so much. And thank you to all our listeners. Reach out to me. If you're a industry thought leader as CEO, I want to talk to you and we want to share what you all know. Again, my name's Stuart Turley, President, CEO of the Sandstone Group. Thank you for stopping by The Energy News Beat. Alex Rossman [00:33:30] Thanks, everyone.