AGI Security: How We Defend the Future (with Esben Kran)

Esben Kran joins the podcast to discuss why securing AGI requires more than traditional cybersecurity, exploring new attack surfaces, adaptive malware, and the societal shifts needed for resilient defenses. We cover protocols for safe agent communication, oversight without surveillance, and distributed safety models across companies and governments.    Learn more about Esben's work at: https://blog.kran.ai   00:00 – Intro and preview  01:13 – AGI security vs traditional cybersecurity  02:36 – Rebuilding societal infrastructure for embedded security  03:33 – Sentware: adaptive, self-improving malware  04:59 – New attack surfaces  05:38 – Social media as misaligned AI  06:46 – Personal vs societal defenses  09:13 – Why private companies underinvest in security  13:01 – Security as the foundation for any AI deployment  14:15 – Oversight without a surveillance state  17:19 – Protocols for safe agent communication  20:25 – The expensive internet hypothesis  23:30 – Distributed safety for companies and governments  28:20 – Cloudflare’s “agent labyrinth” example  31:08 – Positive vision for distributed security  33:49 – Human value when labor is automated  41:19 – Encoding law for machines: contracts and enforcement  44:36 – DarkBench: detecting manipulative LLM behavior  55:22 – The AGI endgame: default path vs designed future  57:37 – Powerful tool AI  01:09:55 – Fast takeoff risk  01:16:09 – Realistic optimism